[Robair]

Eisensapper Eisensapper:

Do you support religious groups interfering with politics?

What do you mean "interfering"?

I believe in one person, one vote... if you're country has a majority that belong to a pro-life religion (for example) and they all vote in line with their church, that is hardly interfering...

[Mustang1]

Robair Robair:

Eisensapper Eisensapper:

Do you support religious groups interfering with politics?

What do you mean "interfering"?

I believe in one person, one vote... if you're country has a majority that belong to a pro-life religion (for example) and they all vote in line with their church, that is hardly interfering...

That's why the Enlightenment introduced us to individual freedoms that are often enshrined in constitutions. Minority rights - not necessarily majority rule - are cornerstones of modern democracies, so in many ways, thankfully, a majority belief system can be immaterial.

[roger-roger]

Its interfering when you take your direction from somewhere outside of reason and logical though. Im not saying being pro life is unreasonable or illogical just, 'because my imaginary friend thinks so' is. If you personally feel that a fetus is a person fractions of a second after conception, then go with it. Don't say that 'because my religion tells me so,' is a good reason to do something.

[roger-roger]

Bacardi4206 Bacardi4206:

Eisensapper Eisensapper:

"The Bible is not my book nor Christianity my profession. I could never give assent to the long, complicated statements of Christian dogma."

- Abraham Lincoln, American president (1809-1865).

"I have found Christian dogma unintelligible. Early in life, I absenteed myself from Christian assemblies."
"Lighthouses are more helpful then churches."

-Benjamin Franklin, American Founding Father, author, and inventor

-John Adams was not a Christian, he was know for getting quite pissed off when he saw that the Catholic church was getting to much power.-

"Where do we find a precept in the Bible for Creeds, Confessions, Doctrines and Oaths, and whole carloads of other trumpery that we find religion encumbered with in these days?"
"The divinity of Jesus is made a convenient cover for absurdity."
"This would be the best of all possible worlds, if there were no religion in it."

-John Adams, U.S. President, Founding Father of the United States

Thomas Jefferson (Deist)

"History I believe furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil government. This marks the lowest grade of ignorance, of which their political as well as religious leaders will always avail themselves for their own purpose. " – Thomas Jefferson to Baron von Humboldt, 1813

"The Christian god can easily be pictured as virtually the same god as the many ancient gods of past civilizations. The Christian god is a three headed monster; cruel, vengeful and capricious. If one wishes to know more of this raging, three headed beast-like god, one only needs to look at the caliber of people who say they serve him. They are always of two classes: fools and hypocrites."

"Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity." –Thomas Jefferson, Notes on Virginia, 1782.

"And the day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerve in the brain of Jupiter. But may we hope that the dawn of reason and freedom of thought in these United States will do away with this artificial scaffolding, and restore to us the primitive and genuine doctrines of this most venerated reformer of human errors." –Thomas Jefferson, Letter to John Adams, April 11, 1823

"Religions are all alike – founded upon fables and mythologies."
"I do not find in orthodox Christianity one redeeming feature."
"Christianity is the most perverted system that ever shone on man."
"It does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are 20 gods, or no God. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg."

- Thomas Jefferson, U.S. President, author, scientist, architect, educator, and diplomat


http://www.wonderfulatheistsofcfl.org/Quotes.htm
http://ffrf.org/nontracts/xian.php

This is what I found in only 15 min. There is much more.

We all well know the U.S. was founded as a Christian nation but no where in my words did I mention the foundation of the United States.

Today the United States is no longer purely a Christian, like in history. Today the United States belongs to many religions from all parts of the world. Any politician can believe whatever they wanted, you can have a next senator whos Islamic or a Athiest.

Point being? The United States doesn't revolve around Christianity. It revolved around all Americans.

Oh my response was in response to tritium quote mining.

[Robair]

Eisensapper Eisensapper:

Its interfering when you take your direction from somewhere outside of reason and logical thought.

Ahhhh. Let's leave pro-life alone, poor choice on my part. Very inflamitory topic. Let's go with marriage.

If I'm a young man that knocks up a young women that i've been dating, wouldn't the reasonable and logical thing be to say "see you later"? If I'm not taking direction from anywhere else, why would you take on the expense of a family?

[roger-roger]

I wouldn’t say it would be reasonable or logical at all. If I had unprotected sex with someone it would be to start a family. If anything choosing not to stay would be a irresponsible and immature thing to do. The decision to stay could be made by a Christian or Atheist, same as with the decision to leave. Modern acceptable behaviour takes its lead from society as a whole not a specific religion, if anything its the other way around. Religion takes its modern morality from society as a whole. Same sex marriage is a wonderful example of this.

[Robair]

Eisensapper Eisensapper:

Modern acceptable behaviour takes its lead from society as a whole not a specific religion, if anything its the other way around. Religion takes its modern morality from society as a whole.

And in your opinion, how has that been working out for us? As a society?

[roger-roger]

Wonderful, take a look at any Islamic fundamentalist state to see the flip side. Our society is fluid and evolves with the passage of time to become a more welcoming place then in generations past. We enjoy many freedoms and benefits I'm sure some people wish they had.

[Public_Domain]

Awesome!

[Robair]

Eisensapper Eisensapper:

Wonderful, take a look at any Islamic fundamentalist state to see the flip side. Our society is fluid and evolves with the passage of time to become a more welcoming place then in generations past. We enjoy many freedoms and benefits I'm sure some people wish they had.

You're setting the bar a little low aren't you?

[roger-roger]

Robair Robair:

Eisensapper Eisensapper:

Wonderful, take a look at any Islamic fundamentalist state to see the flip side. Our society is fluid and evolves with the passage of time to become a more welcoming place then in generations past. We enjoy many freedoms and benefits I'm sure some people wish they had.

You're setting the bar a little low aren't you?

What do you suggest?

[Zipperfish]

I think "freedom of religion" should be pulled from the Charter of Rights and Freedoms myself. The Charter already contains freedoms of conscience, belief and opinion, so I really don't see what religion adds. How is freedom of conscience and freedom of belief different than freedom of religion? Religion is just a belief system agreed to by a suitably large number of people.

That said there is no freedom "from" religion, nor should there be. There is no right not be subject to the teachings of Christ or the mysteries of Scientology. Nor should there be. Such a right would inordinately infringe upon freedom of expression.

[roger-roger]

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

There is no right not be subject to the teachings of Christ or the mysteries of Scientology.

Can you clear that part up for me Zip?

[Zipperfish]

Eisensapper Eisensapper:

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

There is no right not be subject to the teachings of Christ or the mysteries of Scientology.

Can you clear that part up for me Zip?

Certainly--though I'm talking opinion, not fact here.

Freedom from religion would mean that the government would be obligated to intervene to protect you from someone prosletyzing--or even mentioning--his or her religion. That means that people holding a particuallr religious belief couldn't express that belief--no more little fish signs on the back of people's cars. Because anyone seeing the fish would claim that their freedom from religion was infringed. That would, in my opinion, much more seriously impact people's freedom of expression. Or something like that. Whatever. It made sense at the time.

[roger-roger]

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

Eisensapper Eisensapper:

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

There is no right not be subject to the teachings of Christ or the mysteries of Scientology.

Can you clear that part up for me Zip?

Certainly--though I'm talking opinion, not fact here.

Freedom from religion would mean that the government would be obligated to intervene to protect you from someone prosletyzing--or even mentioning--his or her religion. That means that people holding a particuallr religious belief couldn't express that belief--no more little fish signs on the back of people's cars. Because anyone seeing the fish would claim that their freedom from religion was infringed. That would, in my opinion, much more seriously impact people's freedom of expression. Or something like that. Whatever. It made sense at the time.

Ah gotcha, and I agree completely. There is a case similar to that in the states now.