CKA Forums
Login 
canadian forums
bottom
 
 
Canadian Forums

Author Topic Options
Offline
CKA Uber
CKA Uber
User avatar
Profile
Posts: 50938
PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2009 8:54 am
 


Donny_Brasco wrote:
That is the problem, back in the days before tazers you had to use your brain and your training to end situations like this without the use of force.

Fuck, bring the guy a coffee and a sandwich and track down a translator while he relaxes and has a bite to eat. Spending 8 bucks at the airport so this guy has a chance to explain himself would be well worth it to the taxpayers who are now footing the bill for this whole mess.

Of course you say that these boys in blue would have never thought to do this or been obligated to do anything for him, but that is what the difference is between a good cop who can think and problem sove and these clowns who know how to use their weapons but have no clue how to use their brains.

I totally agree with you...

I get grouchy when I don't eat or drink, nervous when I can't go or can't find my way...

He had spent 10 freakin hours in that airport. NO ONE bothered to take a bit care of him. Get a freakin translator. Someone speaks Polish...

I'm sorry... Everybody at that airport is at fault, from the lady at the desk, to the people at arrivals, to the police officers.

They didn't have "a split second" to decide. They had hours. They might have walked in late, but they should have made a "plan de campagne", like they ALWAYS do, and not bulldozer in there.

This was just not necessary. But not only the cops should be held responsible.


Offline
CKA Uber
CKA Uber


GROUP_AVATAR
User avatar
Profile
Posts: 21411
PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2009 9:30 am
 


ridenrain wrote:
The police on site took 30 seconds to access and react as they did.
There were 4 officers and one guy with a stapler, and plenty of room to just back away.

Why did they need to react so fast?


30 seconds? From the video, it looked closer to 3 seconds.

ziggy wrote:

Because as demonstrated here,he was acting combative.
Wonder if he has some french in him?

Const. Gerry Rundel demonstrates the gesture made by Robert Dziekanski moments before he was stunned with a Taser.


They must have thought he was a WW2 French soldier...


Offline
CKA Uber
CKA Uber
 Montreal Canadiens
User avatar
Profile
Posts: 33691
PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2009 9:49 am
 


Brenda wrote:
[

He had spent 10 freakin hours in that airport. NO ONE bothered to take a bit care of him. Get a freakin translator. Someone speaks Polish...



It wouldnt even take that.. anyone who can speak Slovak,Czech, or even
Serb/Croat could have basic communication with him, the vocabulary
has the same basic roots.

2 million in Van, no one in the RCMP or airport has some Slavik blood ?


I agree B, the airport staff should all be hung out for this.
But what the cops did was inexcusable.

Of course, all the excuses have already been made, so this is just
a joke show.


Offline
CKA Uber
CKA Uber
User avatar
Profile
Posts: 50938
PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2009 9:52 am
 


Good chance he even spoke a couple of words of German. Most do.

Then again... this is the perfect example of why the family class immigration rules should change. If you want to move to Canada SPEAK THE FREAKING LANGUAGE!!!


Offline
CKA Super Elite
CKA Super Elite
 Montreal Canadiens
User avatar
Profile
Posts: 7580
PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2009 9:57 am
 


Just another cop out.. pardon the pun... but I just cant see a couple of RCMP guys shaking in their boots because of this guy.. its another case of them getting away with murder...the cop who said he feared for his safety is a friggin joke.. when a bunch of us were having a few at the local bar and his testimony came on the news the whole place burst out laughing.. if he was afraid of this man he shouldnt be a cop... period


Offline
CKA Super Elite
CKA Super Elite
 Montreal Canadiens
User avatar
Profile
Posts: 7580
PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2009 10:01 am
 


Brenda wrote:
Good chance he even spoke a couple of words of German. Most do.

Then again... this is the perfect example of why the family class immigration rules should change. If you want to move to Canada SPEAK THE FREAKING LANGUAGE!!!


I agree Brenda.. too many immigrants dont speak either of the official languages and dont bother to.. because they dont have to.. but in this case the guy was visiting his mother.. another point here is I have friends who are mute and dont speak at all. they sign.. are we allowing the cops to taser anyone they want? what about the mentally ill? above all the high and mighty RCMP should be trained to deal with people not kill them... there was no danger to the cops or anyone else in this situation... I dont believe a word the cops say about this case.


Offline
CKA Uber
CKA Uber
User avatar
Profile
Posts: 50938
PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2009 10:02 am
 


kenmore wrote:
Brenda wrote:
Good chance he even spoke a couple of words of German. Most do.

Then again... this is the perfect example of why the family class immigration rules should change. If you want to move to Canada SPEAK THE FREAKING LANGUAGE!!!


I agree Brenda.. too many immigrants dont speak either of the official languages and dont bother to.. because they dont have to.. but in this case the guy was visiting his mother.. another point here is I have friends who are mute and dont speak at all. they sign.. are we allowing the cops to taser anyone they want? what about the mentally ill? above all the high and mighty RCMP should be trained to deal with people not kill them... there was no danger to the cops or anyone else in this situation... I dont believe a word the cops say about this case.

He wasn't visiting. He was immigrating.


Offline
CKA Super Elite
CKA Super Elite
 Edmonton Oilers
User avatar
Profile
Posts: 6932
PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2009 10:15 am
 


Anybody here want to volunteer their addresses so the government can send you the bill for damages caused by these people while the cops go have a smoke to wait and see if the twat is going to cool down.


Offline
Forum Super Elite
Forum Super Elite
User avatar
Profile
Posts: 2245
PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2009 10:17 am
 


A little objectivity is long overdue in this story. Too many people have formed an opinion only because they are sorry that Dziekanski died. Hindsight is badly skewing why things happened the way they did, and even Dziekanski has some blame in what happed.

The airport security in my mind has more responsibility in this than anyone. How was it that this man was in the same location for so many hours. He should have been escorted out. It’s supposed to be a high security area.

That said, there are some more important points to consider.

Had this man not died, this story would have been a footnote in the paper somewhere. I don’t believe for a second that any cop pulls a taser with the expectation they will kill someone. Our understanding of what a taser was at that point in time, and the fact a taser was certainly preferable to spray or a gun in a crowded building. Even batons or a gang tackle has to be seriously questioned. Dziekanski was a large man. The RCMP had no way of knowing what he was capable of. The taser was a logical choice. The number of times he was shocked was as a result of the first one did not drop him to the ground. This is normally seen when someone is heavily drugged (ie: PCP or Cocaine). This again would only enforce the danger felt by the RCMP officers at the scene.
Language issue or not, the man was in a room which he was able to leave at any time. It was not locked. Was he impaired in some way? I’ve travelled many times to much larger airports around the world I was unfamiliar with and can’t imagine staying in one room for that many hours.

His reaction by throwing furniture and yelling set the stage for a bad outcome. He “acted” drunk/drugged and/or psychotic, and that is what the RCMP was informed and would have anticipated.

In viewing the video, when approached by the RCMP, he was obviously agitated and yelling. Then his reaction was dismissive and that was when he threw up his arms and walked away. That would only confirm the drunk/drugged or psychotic expectation in the minds of the RCMP. I expect that was the moment the scenario that unfolded was unavoidable.

Again in hindsight, we now know that in certain circumstances, a taser may kill someone. It was this episode that really brought that to the forefront. At the time, the RCMP expected it would be a tool of compliance, not a deadly weapon. That’s the reason the police can’t be held criminally responsible.

I not trying to defend the police for their actions except to say I’m not sure I would have done anything differently if I was in the same position.

Dziekanski’s death was tragic but there are many factors that contributed to his death. This is not a black and white issue, and I’m not even convinced there are any bad guys in what happened. Even the cops are victims in this case.


Offline
Active Member
Active Member
Profile
Posts: 313
PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2009 10:33 am
 


The tazer,... the lazy cowardly cops favorite piece of equipment. ..ZAAAAAAAAAAAAAp now you will listen to me.........


Offline
Newbie
Newbie
Profile
Posts: 1
PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2009 10:46 am
 


What is wrong with the cops? Four big cops couldn't subdue one man with a stapler? This inquiry is a total sham. Those four officers should be held accountable for the death of this man.

In basic training these cops learn how to disarm people with knives and guns. I guess because they weren't trained how to disarm a man with a stapler, they're allowed to use their tazers? WTF?


Offline
CKA Uber
CKA Uber


GROUP_AVATAR
User avatar
Profile
Posts: 21411
PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2009 11:17 am
 


poquas wrote:
A little objectivity is long overdue in this story. Too many people have formed an opinion only because they are sorry that Dziekanski died. Hindsight is badly skewing why things happened the way they did, and even Dziekanski has some blame in what happed.

The airport security in my mind has more responsibility in this than anyone. How was it that this man was in the same location for so many hours. He should have been escorted out. It’s supposed to be a high security area.

That said, there are some more important points to consider.

Had this man not died, this story would have been a footnote in the paper somewhere. I don’t believe for a second that any cop pulls a taser with the expectation they will kill someone. Our understanding of what a taser was at that point in time, and the fact a taser was certainly preferable to spray or a gun in a crowded building. Even batons or a gang tackle has to be seriously questioned. Dziekanski was a large man. The RCMP had no way of knowing what he was capable of. The taser was a logical choice. The number of times he was shocked was as a result of the first one did not drop him to the ground. This is normally seen when someone is heavily drugged (ie: PCP or Cocaine). This again would only enforce the danger felt by the RCMP officers at the scene.
Language issue or not, the man was in a room which he was able to leave at any time. It was not locked. Was he impaired in some way? I’ve travelled many times to much larger airports around the world I was unfamiliar with and can’t imagine staying in one room for that many hours.

His reaction by throwing furniture and yelling set the stage for a bad outcome. He “acted” drunk/drugged and/or psychotic, and that is what the RCMP was informed and would have anticipated.

In viewing the video, when approached by the RCMP, he was obviously agitated and yelling. Then his reaction was dismissive and that was when he threw up his arms and walked away. That would only confirm the drunk/drugged or psychotic expectation in the minds of the RCMP. I expect that was the moment the scenario that unfolded was unavoidable.

Again in hindsight, we now know that in certain circumstances, a taser may kill someone. It was this episode that really brought that to the forefront. At the time, the RCMP expected it would be a tool of compliance, not a deadly weapon. That’s the reason the police can’t be held criminally responsible.

I not trying to defend the police for their actions except to say I’m not sure I would have done anything differently if I was in the same position.

Dziekanski’s death was tragic but there are many factors that contributed to his death. This is not a black and white issue, and I’m not even convinced there are any bad guys in what happened. Even the cops are victims in this case.


I agree with much of what you wrote, and I agree the airport is more to blame for allowing the situation to go on as long as it did. I also agree that Dziekanski shares a large part of the blame. However, it wasn't an airport enmployee that tazered Dziekanski, it was RCMP officers.

To me, this is just another case of cops doing exactly what they deride criminals for, trying to wiggle out of any culpability/responsibility for their actions.

I think just about everyone saw it in LA when police officers convinced a jury that Rodney King's attempts to shield himself from repeated blows was 'resisting arrest'.

I've seen it before in Edmonton, when police officers blow through intersection at twice the speed limit (no lights of sirens) and kill/maim children, then go out and hire a slick lawyer and blame the accident on the automaker or the grandfather driving the car. The very same guy shot someone who fell out of a window, and he got acquitted on that too. Another used a headstun on a handcuffed girl half his size and got off during the Oilers playoff run in 2006.

Then there's Ian Bush, who was shot in the back of the head while in a holding cell in Houston, B.C.

The list oges on and on.

I just want to see police officers face the same penalties everyone else does when they screw up. If they drive drunk or shoot someone, they should face the same penalties as anyone else, period.

Yes, they have a stressful job, but so do ER doctors, firemen, soldiers, etc. If they don't get any special treatment, why should cops?





PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2009 11:26 am
 


Then theres Darren Varley who I knew before he was murdered.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darren_Varley


Quote:
After two attempts by the Crown which both ended in mistrials from hung juries to try Michael Ferguson for the killing of Darren Varley, a third attempt was made to try him for manslaughter. 5-years after the killing of Darren Varley, Constable Michael Ferguson was found guilty of killing Varley and convicted of manslaughter.[1]

The mandatory sentence for manslaughter in Canada, is a 4-year closed prison term in incidents involving a firearm. Justice Ged Hawco, ruled to make a constitutional exemption to the firearm clause because the police revolver was present as a result of Constable Ferguson's duties and allow Michael Ferguson to serve an exceptional 2-year less a day term in his own home. Justice Hawco came to the conclusion that Michael Ferguson fired the first shot in self defense, but the second shot was unnecessary.

Justice Hawco stated in his Reasons for Judgment, "If I were to place Mr. Ferguson on this ladder of moral culpability, given the facts which the jury must have concluded, he would be on the very lower rungs."[2]



Offline
Junior Member
Junior Member
Profile
Posts: 49
PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2009 11:42 am
 


What we are witnessing is how the rcmp cover up a cold blooded murder by 4 officers that were video taped in the act That's all folks.

They will get away with it because they can. They will be supported by other criminal gangs ie the brotherhood of taser carrying police.

Canadians will continue to perish while the guilty get away with murder scott free. There is not a damn thing you or I can do about it. They have too much power and are corrupt.

And this is a civilized country! :lol:

Unfortunately if dznaski(sp) would of retaliated in the most vicious form possible it would of been self defence in hindsight. So unfortunatley for police everywhere a precedent has been set. Bait people into thinking the taser is safe and then kill them with it. The cats out of the bag! It's a murder weapon giving police to be judge, jury and executioner for PETTY crimes. They have just proved it! anti crime groups are probably pissing themselves with excitement, thinking this will stop crime.... :roll:


Offline
CKA Uber
CKA Uber
User avatar
Profile
Posts: 50938
PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2009 11:54 am
 


It was not murder. It was accidental death.
With your logic, a fork is a murder weapon. There must have been people killed with a fork.


Post new topic  Reply to topic  [ 79 posts ]  Previous  1  2  3  4  5  6  Next



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 11 guests




 
     
All logos and trademarks in this site are property of their respective owner.
The comments are property of their posters, all the rest © Canadaka.net. Powered by © phpBB.