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PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2009 10:27 am
 


Title: GM posts US$9.6-billion fourth-quarter loss
Category: Business
Posted By: mtbr
Date: 2009-02-26 06:24:46
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2009 10:27 am
 


...

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2009 11:06 am
 


Uh-oh, Stemmer's head is about to explode...


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2009 11:09 am
 


bootlegga wrote:
Uh-oh, Stemmer's head is about to explode...


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2009 11:17 am
 


he's out driving in his vetteImage


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2009 11:42 am
 


This article seems to answer some of your concerns...

http://www.tnr.com/politics/story.html? ... fa3a3211bf

IF GM were to disappear as most of you seem to want, the economic repercussions throughout North America would be devastating.... Even Toyota has stated GM's demise would also hurt Toyota and other car manufacturers...


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2009 11:47 am
 


We aren't actively demanding that they be forced out of business Stemmer. But at the same time, we don't see the point in artificially propping up a company that for years has produced a line of vehicles that nobody wants. And then at the same time, the unions were demanding more money to produce vehicles that weren't selling.

GM is just using the recession as an excuse to get loads of government cash so that they can cover problems that they created for themselves years ago. Remember in a capitalist market, you either make what people want and if you don't, then adapt or die.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2009 11:53 am
 


If they are manufacturing cars no one wants, they why have they been #1 in car sales until last year and are number #2? IF they are making cars no one wants they would not be a head of Nissan, Honda, Ford, Mopar, etc...but at the bottom of the heap.....


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2009 11:58 am
 


stemmer wrote:
If they are manufacturing cars no one wants, they why have they been #1 in car sales until last year and are number #2? IF they are making cars no one wants they would not be a head of Nissan, Honda, Ford, Mopar, etc...but at the bottom of the heap.....


So, being the one to ask for the biggest bailout makes them top of the heap?

I don't see Ford standing there with hand outstretched. Or Nissan, or Honda . .


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2009 12:15 pm
 


GM was too generous with their pensions, healthcare and benefits... Now they pay more out to retired workers then people who are currently working at GM...

IF GM does go under because of this the concern is more companies will second guess benefits, pension plans and healthcare packages for their employees...

Nissan, Honda, Toyota just doesn't have the legacy the Big Three have... Not sure why Ford isn't in the same boat as Mopar or GM...

but don't kid yourself Toyota, Honda and others have gotten government assistance to setup new plants... GM or Ford have never asked for money from the government before this year.... Chrysler did under Lee Iacoca and the money was repaid in full...


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2009 12:21 pm
 


So, the $6B they got didn't even balance the books for the last quarter? Hmmm. Just about as useful as the Titanic's watertight compartments.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2009 12:25 pm
 


stemmer wrote:
GM was too generous with their pensions, healthcare and benefits... Now they pay more out to retired workers then people who are currently working at GM...

IF GM does go under because of this the concern is more companies will second guess benefits, pension plans and healthcare packages for their employees...

Nissan, Honda, Toyota just doesn't have the legacy the Big Three have... Not sure why Ford isn't in the same boat as Mopar or GM...

but don't kid yourself Toyota, Honda and others have gotten government assistance to setup new plants... GM or Ford have never asked for money from the government before this year.... Chrysler did under Lee Iacoca and the money was repaid in full...


The difference, Stemmer, is that Toyota and Honda MIGHT survive this recession. GM, Ford and Chrysler WILL NOT, no matter HOW much money we throw at them, unless they come up with some innovative, alternative vehicles.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2009 12:26 pm
 


stemmer wrote:
If they are manufacturing cars no one wants, they why have they been #1 in car sales until last year and are number #2? IF they are making cars no one wants they would not be a head of Nissan, Honda, Ford, Mopar, etc...but at the bottom of the heap.....


They were number one simply because of the expanse of brands that are sold under GM. But each independent name was not selling enough to sustain itself resulting in huge losses for GM. They suffered from the problem of over expansion and needed to streamline their product line.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2009 1:54 pm
 


Frankly, I don't want all three car companies to go under. I'd like to see at two survive, but I don't care which two. I don't want a potential monopoly situation if only one survives (they'd probably scream for import quotas), but having 3 auto manufacturing megacorporations, each with several dozen brands is ridiculous.

If you compare the Japanese car companies with the any of the Big 3, it's laughable. The big Japanese companies have one or two brands, each with a dozen of so models. GM has probably a dozen brands, each with a dozen or so models. For the most part, the differences across each of the Big 3 are usually just cosmetic, so there's no real reason for it.

Had GM not killed the EV-1 (electric car) in the 90s, they would have been just fine. Instead, they buried it and made shitloads of SUVs. That was great for the immediate bottomline, but disasterous as it didn't allow them to plan for the long term. GM is a victim of short-sighted planning, most of which stems from its constant worry over its stock prices. Had GM execs thought about the next quarter century instead of just the next quarter (and their annual bonus'), GM wouldn't be in the position it is today.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2009 2:21 pm
 


The lost 82 billions in 2 years. Amazing.


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