[EyeBrock]

I don't blame the Israeli's. They are under seige on every border.

This was just a stupid decision and could have been avoided.

[ShepherdsDog]

$1:

The Palestianians have much more sympathizers then Israel.

Well we know Europe's history when it comes to dealing with the Jews. Had they been a little less intolerant, most Israelis would be German, French, Polish, Czech and Russian citizens.

[GreenTiger]

The Israeli's like to use a real heavy hand don't they? Nothing will stop them them of their Liebensraum program.

[andyt]

GreenTiger GreenTiger:

The Israeli's like to use a real heavy hand don't they? Nothing will stop them them of their Liebensraum program.

That's the problem right there - the Israelis can't play the victim while they persue their expansionist policies. Justified by mythical babble no less - "We are God's chosen and He gave us this land." I'm not sure who learned from whom in terms of Nazis and Israel.

[Zipperfish]

N_Fiddledog N_Fiddledog:

I know CNN doesn't seem to know any of that.

So, you're criticizing CNN because they didn't parrot the IDF website? You think good journalism is to cut and paste official government versions of incidents?

[Zipperfish]

commanderkai commanderkai:

You don't see the media as a major force in the Palestinian-Israeli conflict? Editorials is another matter entirely. How the news is portrayed in little clippings before the next story is where a large portion of the general population is going to get their news coverage of the event. Maybe it's the fault of our collective attention spans, but a good chunk of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is fueled by clippings, not by in depth analysis.

I certainly do see the media as a major force. However I don't find that anti-Israel bent that some here insist upon--and I provided some evidence to back that up.

$1:

Also, the fact that some Israelis are upset is a non-issue. Citizens of liberal democracies are going to get upset when their government does something they disagree with. If this is truly making many Israelis upset, there will be another election, much like the election that occurred after the failure of the Gaza pullout by Israel (which, in the end, led to this)

I agree. I only pointed out that there was some negative media coverage in Israel to demonstarte that articles critical of Israel need not necessarily be driven by an anti-Israel bias.

$1:

And this comes from what little clippings they see in newspapers and 24 hour news shows. How many people know the blockade is...or was partially enforced by Egypt? How many people know that Israel sends bucketloads of aid into Gaza when Israel is enforcing a blockade against Gaza?

I don't really know what the general level of awareness about Hamas and the Gaza blockade is. I'd be interested to find out, actually. I consider myself schooled in foreign policy and world events and even I have to say, I have a hell of a time trying to sort out that mess. Luckily I've got Shepherd's Dog to sort me!

$1:

There are two sides to it being a disaster. A) That the ship was raided in the first place. B) The ship was raided poorly by commandos with paintball guns into a crowd of anti-Israel Hamas supporters.

Which one, in all honesty, do you believe that it is perceived as a military blunder? Yes, once again, the media and perception comes into play.

I'm with EyeBrock--it was a military blunder, both on the strategic and tactical level. Israel has a right to be concerned about weapons getting into Gaza. Apparently Israel already lets aid in, so I don't understand the point of the flotillas--unless theya re to deliberate aggravate Israel into exactly this kind of action. I have no issue with them ensuring that these flotillas don't contain weapons. I just would expect a better execution.

[N_Fiddledog]

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

N_Fiddledog N_Fiddledog:

I know CNN doesn't seem to know any of that.

So, you're criticizing CNN because they didn't parrot the IDF website? You think good journalism is to cut and paste official government versions of incidents?

No. I'm saying at the time CNN was only showing one side. That side said Israel was preventing aid from getting to the Palestinians. The IDF site had statistical, and video evidence showing not only was aid delivered regularly, but even the Flotilla aid was delivered to the border once it went through proper channels. Hamas blocked that flotilla aid at the border. They wouldn't let it through. None of that was on CNN. Only information coming from organizations like FreeGaza was being represented by CNN at the time I was watching it, and posting. It was not being challenged by information available from the other side of the issue at that particular time.

[Zipperfish]

N_Fiddledog N_Fiddledog:

No. I'm saying at the time CNN was only showing one side. That side said Israel was preventing aid from getting to the Palestinians. The IDF site had statistical, and video evidence showing not only was aid delivered regularly, but even the Flotilla aid was delivered to the border once it went through proper channels. Hamas blocked that flotilla aid at the border. They wouldn't let it through. None of that was on CNN. Only information coming from organizations like FreeGaza was being represented by CNN at the time I was watching it, and posting. It was not being challenged by information available from the other side of the issue at that particular time.

CNN: Q&A: Aid and Israel's Gaza blockade

$1:

What goods does Israel allow into Gaza?

About 15,000 tons of humanitarian aid flows into Gaza each week, Israeli government spokesman Mark Regev said. Israel says it allows enough humanitarian aid -- including food and medicines - into Gaza for the people who live there and that the blockade is designed to stop Hamas from building or acquiring arms. Israel has never published a list of banned items but it has refused to allow into Gaza books, paper, blankets and reconstruction materials. The U.N. says 80 percent of Gazans rely on some form of humanitarian aid.

Why did Israel object to the flotilla?

The Israeli government described the flotilla has a "provocation" and said it was a political stunt. Danny Ayalon, the Israeli Deputy Foreign Minister, said: "The organizers' intent was violent, their method was violent and the results were unfortunately violent." The Free Gaza Movement said the flotilla's aim was to "challenge Israel's blockade of 1.5 million Palestinians trapped in an open-air prison."

Was there another route for this aid?

The Israeli government said it would allow humanitarian aid on the flotilla into Gaza through its normal channels. An IDF spokesman said the vessels "refused to comply with an invitation to come to Ashdod port where they could transfer aid into the Gaza strip." Audrey Bomse, legal advisor to the Free Gaza Movement, told CNN the group did not believe the Israelis would let the cargo into Gaza and that the cargo also included reconstruction aid which Israel does not allow into Gaza

[N_Fiddledog]

Exactly Zip. That's my point. They knew that, and yet they refused to let the information filter through on air. The information was available, yet viewers weren't hearing it. I know I wasn't, and I was specifically waiting for it.

I sat there listening to the FreeGaza bitch on CNN ramble on for what seemed like forever, stating over, and over Israel was not letting aid through. That the flotilla was only about getting aid through to the sick and starving Palestinians. The interviewer never challenged her on the point. He only nodded his head, and let her ramble on. He never put forward the fact CNN obviously knew - that humanitarian aid could be, and had been delivered to Gaza when delivered through the proper channels. I continued to listen to CNN out the corner of my ear as much as I could that day. I never heard the other side put forward to the misinformation from FreeGaza.

No doubt they'll let that tidbit filter through every once in a while now, but it's too late. The indoctrination has been hardwired into the faithful now. Their ears just filter out the conflicting information now.

[N_Fiddledog]

Here's a letter from somebody, who may or may not be an anchorman, but claims he is, and claims he almost quit over the biased news on his network, or station. Whether he is an anchorman or not, I don't know, but he did notice the same stuff I was noticing.

$1:

I just finished watching XXXX’s piece on yesterday’s 5pm newscast, so I could better understand the grotesquely distorted and biased voice-over that ran on this morning’s show. XXXX interviewed former diplomat Edward Peck, who was onboard the “Gaza Flotilla,” without describing his views on the Middle East. Some perspective would have helped. Among other things, Peck spoke these words, later famously used by the Rev. Jeremiah Wright:”We bombed Hiroshima, we bombed Nagasaki, and we nuked far more than the thousands in New York and the Pentagon, and we never batted an eye…and now we are indignant, because the stuff we have done overseas is now brought back into our own front yards.”

Peck is deeply controversial in other ways. But no mention was made in XXXX’s story of anything that might cast the slightest doubt on Pecks political motivations.

In addition, remarkably, her piece made no mention – absolutely none — of the Israeli perspective in this story. For example:

The widely aired (though not here) video that clearly shows an IDF soldier being tossed over a railing, and others being beaten with sticks, was omitted.

The fact that bullet proof vests and night vision goggles were found among the “humanitarian aid” on the ship was omitted.

IDF video of confiscated knives and metal bars that were apparently used as weapons was omitted.

Information that Israeli soldiers were also wounded and injured was omitted.

Moreover, her piece included no background whatsoever on why Israel’s interception (“attack” as we called it ) of the flotilla would likely have passed muster in any court outside the thug-ridden United Nations.

Nor did viewers get any background about the three-year-old blockade of Gaza, facts such as:

It’s purpose, which is to prevent the shipment of longer-range, more powerful missiles that only ships can carry. Thousands of Hamas rockets are presently pointed at various Israeli cities, towns and schoolyards; the Israeli government estimates that Hamas continues to smuggle tons of explosives per month into Gaza, mostly through tunnels. In the last few years, more than 2,700 rockets have rained down from Gaza on the civilian population of southern Israel.

In 2005, Israel ordered about 8,500 Jewish settlers to evacuate 21 settlements in Gaza, land occupied since the Six-Day War of 1967. Reluctant and emotionally-torn IDF soldiers had to literally pry people from their family homes. That same land in the year 2010, is now occupied by Hamas training camps.

Gaza is a strategically located port, control of which would complete the encirclement of Israel by it’s sworn enemies, including Hamas and Hezbollah – the latter, of course, being a client of Iran, which is close to acquiring nuclear capability and has threatened repeatedly to wipe Israel off the map.

These are among the perspectives that were left out of our story.

With all due respect XXXX, I find our coverage of this an abomination. I feel like I want to wash the slime off me when I get off work. I’m embarrassed by our coverage. I take this job and my reputation seriously. But that’s nearly impossible with coverage like this. I hope you’ll respond.

http://dailycaller.com/2010/06/02/ancho ... -coverage/

[martin14]

Wonder what they will do about the second boat ?

[commanderkai]

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

I certainly do see the media as a major force. However I don't find that anti-Israel bent that some here insist upon--and I provided some evidence to back that up.

Fiddle actually gave a good example of this. It's not overt bias, really, but rather letting people get away with stating completely false information against Israel without challenge. You and I, for example, search and read though information from many sources to stay informed. However, if you get your news/information from a single interview, or a short segment on a 24 hour news program, there is this imbalance of reporting. Maybe not intentional, but just...off.

$1:

I don't really know what the general level of awareness about Hamas and the Gaza blockade is. I'd be interested to find out, actually. I consider myself schooled in foreign policy and world events and even I have to say, I have a hell of a time trying to sort out that mess. Luckily I've got Shepherd's Dog to sort me!

Haha yeah, even I, a rather staunch pro-Israel supporter, didn't realize the avenues and the way aid is sent into Gaza from Israel. Now, I don't know how the aid is handled in Gaza once it's arrived (I'd go with the common way aid is handled anywhere. The leadership takes most of it, and they give their scraps to the masses).

$1:

I'm with EyeBrock--it was a military blunder, both on the strategic and tactical level. Israel has a right to be concerned about weapons getting into Gaza. Apparently Israel already lets aid in, so I don't understand the point of the flotillas--unless theya re to deliberate aggravate Israel into exactly this kind of action. I have no issue with them ensuring that these flotillas don't contain weapons. I just would expect a better execution.

I'd agree. Maybe inspections like this have worked in the past. Hell that I know, I'm not in the IDF. Do I think this was a clusterfuck? Hell yes I do. But in my opinion and general assessment, it's a clusterfuck because Israel let its own soldiers get beaten so severely and harshly before taking any action. I can't even imagine regular police officers or riot control teams in Canada or the US taking that much punishment without resorting to new tactics. On a strategic level, it's bad press. But Israel isn't exactly new to bad press

[Proculation]

I hope they will wait until they enter Israeli waters before attacking now. A little torpedo should do the job.

[Zipperfish]

commanderkai commanderkai:

Fiddle actually gave a good example of this. It's not overt bias, really, but rather letting people get away with stating completely false information against Israel without challenge. You and I, for example, search and read though information from many sources to stay informed. However, if you get your news/information from a single interview, or a short segment on a 24 hour news program, there is this imbalance of reporting. Maybe not intentional, but just...off.

I can't really argue with Fiddle because I never watch the news. I just read it.

I'd concede that most people hold Israel to a higher standard than Hamas, or even neighbouring countries like Jordan and Lebabnon. I know I do, and maybe that's unfair.

$1:

Haha yeah, even I, a rather staunch pro-Israel supporter, didn't realize the avenues and the way aid is sent into Gaza from Israel. Now, I don't know how the aid is handled in Gaza once it's arrived (I'd go with the common way aid is handled anywhere. The leadership takes most of it, and they give their scraps to the masses).

Yes, the worst thing about this whole thing--apart from the dead and wounded--is that Hamas is triumphant. Witht he lock they have on Gaza now, it looks like the Gaza Strip is going to going the hardcore Islamist route. The ones I feel sorry for are the Gaza Palestinians who don't agree wiht Hamas. They are routinely executed, their property destroyed, imprisoned.

[Wada]

As I understand the situation the UN is set up in Gaza and distributes the aid and have consistantly stated that the aid is about one quarter of what is needed. This is coming from memory but I think it's accurate.