[ShepherdsDog]

The important thing to remember is that it was created and it's not going away no matter how much the the neighbouring Arabs or the Anti Semites want it to disappear. Whether or not a viable Palestinian State can be created is the question people should be asking. Even if political boundaries are created, can a Palestinian state survive being run by Palestinians?

[hamiltonguyo]

Virgil wrote:

ok I have a question, was there a Jewish majority in Israel when it was created? If so, then the creation of the country is plausible. However, if the Jews attempt to impose their religious beliefs upon other cultures in the country than I do not believe in how the country is run. If the country was inhabited by none Jews during it's creation, then it should not have been created. It would be like me pleading for western Canada to cede to an aboriginal government, though the majority of the populace is not aboriginal.

Palestine was determined to be unstable and Britain and the UN both considered it a bad idea to have a single state. Therefore it was partitioned into the area with a Jewish majority and an area with a Palestinian majority. Unfourtunately rejectionist arab states invaded and the UN refused to protect Jerusalem and keep it neutraland hence came the Green Line (pre-1967) borders of Israel.

[hamiltonguyo]

ShepherdsDog wrote:

The important thing to remember is that it was created and it's not going away no matter how much the the neighbouring Arabs or the Anti Semites want it to disappear. Whether or not a viable Palestinian State can be created is the question people should be asking. Even if political boundaries are created, can a Palestinian state survive being run by Palestinians?

If the school systems can be brought under secular control then mayby the next generation can form a viable state but currently with people like Hamas running the government ... I doubt it.

[Virgil]

ShepherdsDog wrote:

The important thing to remember is that it was created and it's not going away no matter how much the the neighbouring Arabs or the Anti Semites want it to disappear. Whether or not a viable Palestinian State can be created is the question people should be asking. Even if political boundaries are created, can a Palestinian state survive being run by Palestinians?

Right. But the country should be run multiculturally, Jews should have no more rights than Arabs.

Quote:

Palestine was determined to be unstable and Britain and the UN both considered it a bad idea to have a single state. Therefore it was partitioned into the area with a Jewish majority and an area with a Palestinian majority. Unfourtunately rejectionist arab states invaded and the UN refused to protect Jerusalem and keep it neutraland hence came the Green Line (pre-1967) borders of Israel.

In wich I favor it's creation for support of Jewish freedom.

[hamiltonguyo]

All groups have equal rights(except reform and conservative Jews) in Israel including arabs

in fact arabs do not have to serve in the military if they don't want to (unlike Israelis and Druze)

in fact the Israelis discriminate more agaisnt Reform and Conservative Jews than agaisnt arabs

[Blue_Nose]

I'm by no means an authority in this matter, but I recently attended a presentation by a peer of mine on Palestinian refugees. Here's an estimate as to the refugees remaining in the region (from Wiki)

Quote:

Gaza 923,000 refugees
Jordan 2,540,000 refugees
Lebanon 695,000 refugees
Syria 584,000 refugees
West Bank 665,000 refugees
Egypt 70,000 refugees
Saudi Arabia 240,000 refugees

That is about 2 million refugees (including their families) from the exodus over 50 years ago. These people have, more often than not, few rights in the countries they reside in, and live in camps. Albeit, some have managed to rise above this and become quite successful, but the living conditions for some are still horrible.

Though I can't comment on the particulars of the war, or the history, this 'thing' the UN imposed resulted in these people being without a country to call home for the last 50 years, and I find that a little hard to swallow.

[ShepherdsDog]

The 923 000 living in Gaza and the 665 000 living in the West bank can't be considered refugees. They are 'Palestinian' Arabs living in Arab territories. Jordan's population is 70 % 'Palestinian' and up until Israel seized the West Bank, those Arabs who lived there considered themselves to be Jordanians, because it was part of Jordan (the Arab state created out of the British Mandate for the regions Arab population). For that matter Gaza Palestinians were Eqyptians, as Gaza was seized from Eqypt and the Palestinians of the Golan Heights were Syrians.

[hamiltonguyo]

Those numbers are a bit high the estimates I believe of actual refugees are between 600,000 and 900 000 thousand with 700,000 the generally accepted number

866,000 Jews were expelled from Arab lands at the same time most(600,000) making their way to Israel.

Is it Israel's fault the Arab states failed to integrate the refugees the same way as Israel integrated the Jewish refugees?

The majority of the Palestinian refugees today are descendants of those 700,000 thousand. I wonder how many descendants of the 980,000 are there.

Not only that the jewish refugees were at least all proper refugees

the palestinians instead of having to meet tougher requirements to become refugees only had to have lived in the area that became Israel during the time between the end of the mandate and the cease fire.

Not to mention that Israeli arabs were allowed to remain but jews in the west bank and gaza were forced to leave.

I've just checked the numbers actually as i'm writting this. Only 200,000 palestinian refugees actually lived in Israel. Now the rest can not just be the next generation but also the next next generation.

Israel has offered compensation but due to the circumstances at most only the 200,000 that have actually lived in Israel will get a right of return.

[MrMagicMan]

Yes. Israel should have been created and I am glad it was.