I'm doing this as my summative for World History, and while I have most of the info that I need to present both sides of the argument, I want some feedback on what you guys know/understand about the events leading up to WWI and if Germany was responsible.....
Tricks
CKA Uber
Posts: 18783
Posted: Sat May 06, 2006 11:01 am
Yes and no. Too lazy to type why, ill do it later
xerxes
CKA Super Elite
Posts: 8879
Posted: Sat May 06, 2006 11:24 am
In a lot of ways yes, but it wasn't exclusively their fault.
If you want to go back a ways, WW1 is Napoleon's fault in some ways. His conquest of Prussia and otehr German states gave rise to a German nationialism that manifested itself in the Franco-Prussian War; a war which France lost but shouldn't have.
Also, the post-Napoleonic Congress of Vienna helped set the stage for WW1 as well. By instituting a balance of power on the continent, it was almost certain that any breach of that balance (which Germany undertook at the start of the 20th century) would result in an arms which was seen in the decade before WW1.
Furthermore, after the Prussian on Franco ass-whuppin', there was a sense in Europe that the war wasn't quite settled; that there would have to be another war to see who was the dominant power in Europe.
While there wer a numberr of factors that led to the war, a lot of the blame still falls on Germany. They were the ones who attacked first, they were the ones who pushed Austria-Hungary into taking over the Balkans, thus enraging the Russians (at least on the surface. The Russians had sold out the Yugoslav nationalists to the Austrians before the war began).
Arctic for some good books on WW1 check out:
John Keegan "The First World War" (just a note, he is a military historian by trade)
Niall Fergusson "The Pity of War" (his conclusion is whack, but his research is top-notch)
There's some other books I'd recommend, but I'm unsure what sort of library access you have. But those are good starts. As always the internet is a wealth of resources, even Wikipedia (check out the reference section for more more good books on the subject).
Arctic_Menace
CKA Uber
Posts: 17114
Posted: Sat May 06, 2006 11:28 am
From what I've gathered so far, The Alliance Systems, secret agendas, and a breakdown in communications and pressure from other governments is what led to WWI. People kept jumping around from being ready for war, to wanting peace....
EyeBrock
CKA Uber
Posts: 14763
Posted: Sat May 06, 2006 11:56 am
Ask Gun Plumber, he'll blame it on the British.......
I did a paper on this a while back. A good book with a raft of differing opinions is:
Problems in European Civilization, The Outbreak of WW1 , compiled by Holger H Herwig, Uni of Calgary, printed by Houghton Mifflin.
You can get it at Indigo/Chapters.
It has really good and varying opinions backed with all kinds of interesting facts.
Arctic_Menace
CKA Uber
Posts: 17114
Posted: Sat May 06, 2006 12:02 pm
I've started Flipping through Europe's Last Summer. I've also used books by Luigi Albertini and Harry Barnes. They give alot of insight and detail into the month after the assassination of Franz Ferdinand.
EyeBrock
CKA Uber
Posts: 14763
Posted: Sat May 06, 2006 12:05 pm
I think a good chunk of the blame can be laid at the feet of the Brits and french for fiddling while Rome burned so to speak.
They could have influenced Russia into stopping Serbia from pissing the Austrians off.
Once Austria declared war on Serbia, the Germans were treaty bound to join in, as were the Russians to help Serbia.
A little strong arm tactics in 1913 by the French and Brits may have averted the slaughter. Just my opinion!
GreatBriton
CKA Elite
Posts: 3171
Posted: Sat May 06, 2006 12:31 pm
World War I started after Archduke Ferdinand shot an ostrich because he was hungry.
Tricks
CKA Uber
Posts: 18783
Posted: Sat May 06, 2006 12:35 pm
GreatBriton wrote:
World War I started after Archduke Ferdinand shot an ostrich because he was hungry.
ROTFL
SaintLucifer
Active Member
Posts: 332
Posted: Sat May 06, 2006 1:11 pm
xerxes wrote:
In a lot of ways yes, but it wasn't exclusively their fault.
If you want to go back a ways, WW1 is Napoleon's fault in some ways. His conquest of Prussia and otehr German states gave rise to a German nationialism that manifested itself in the Franco-Prussian War; a war which France lost but shouldn't have.
Also, the post-Napoleonic Congress of Vienna helped set the stage for WW1 as well. By instituting a balance of power on the continent, it was almost certain that any breach of that balance (which Germany undertook at the start of the 20th century) would result in an arms which was seen in the decade before WW1.
Furthermore, after the Prussian on Franco ass-whuppin', there was a sense in Europe that the war wasn't quite settled; that there would have to be another war to see who was the dominant power in Europe.
While there wer a numberr of factors that led to the war, a lot of the blame still falls on Germany. They were the ones who attacked first, they were the ones who pushed Austria-Hungary into taking over the Balkans, thus enraging the Russians (at least on the surface. The Russians had sold out the Yugoslav nationalists to the Austrians before the war began).
Arctic for some good books on WW1 check out:
John Keegan "The First World War" (just a note, he is a military historian by trade)
Niall Fergusson "The Pity of War" (his conclusion is whack, but his research is top-notch)
There's some other books I'd recommend, but I'm unsure what sort of library access you have. But those are good starts. As always the internet is a wealth of resources, even Wikipedia (check out the reference section for more more good books on the subject).
*ROTFLMAO @ blaming WWI on Napoleon* What a MORON.
GreatBriton
CKA Elite
Posts: 3171
Posted: Sat May 06, 2006 1:35 pm
Yeah. I agree with Xerxes.
People have to remember that Napoleon lived less than 100 years before WWI.
To us, he lived a while ago - but not to people in 1914.
GreatBriton
CKA Elite
Posts: 3171
Posted: Sat May 06, 2006 1:40 pm
It started when Archduke Franz Ferdinand of Serbia was assassinated, Kennedy-style, whilst travelling in his car through throngs of waving crowds.
This then (somehow) pitted Serbia in a war against Austria/Hungary, and then the Germans joined on the same side as Austria/Hungary (I think), and then Britain and her Empire and the French then joined in the war against the Germans and the Austro-Hungarians, and so on and so on.
Yank-in-NY
Forum Elite
Posts: 1043
Posted: Sat May 06, 2006 2:20 pm
It was Bush's fault.
Tricks
CKA Uber
Posts: 18783
Posted: Sat May 06, 2006 3:14 pm
Yank-in-NY wrote:
It was Bush's fault.
ROTFL
Tricks
CKA Uber
Posts: 18783
Posted: Sat May 06, 2006 3:19 pm
GreatBriton wrote:
It started when Archduke Franz Ferdinand of Serbia was assassinated, Kennedy-style, whilst travelling in his car through throngs of waving crowds.
This then (somehow) pitted Serbia in a war against Austria/Hungary, and then the Germans joined on the same side as Austria/Hungary (I think), and then Britain and her Empire and the French then joined in the war against the Germans and the Austro-Hungarians, and so on and so on.
Somehow? You think? Kennedy-style? Holy shit. A) It wasn't Kennedy style, kennedy was sniped. This guy got shot by some guy who ran out of the crowd with a hand gun. Some how? It was a god damn serbian organization (terrorist or fanatic something) that had no affiliation with Serbia. Austria was like fuck that, laid down a deal which Serbia regused, Bam war. Germans had to get involved because of treaty, then same with russia. France was allied with Russia and Germany knew it so they had to invade them, when they used the Schlieffen plan, Britain and the rest of the commonwealth had to get involved because of a treaty with Belgium. Britain said they would protect Belgium should any country try to cross its borders unwanted. Any countries army. What I don't know is how in hell the states decided to come into this one, perhaps a hustory nut could shed some light on the debacle?
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