[Virgil]

Tman1 wrote:

EyeBrock wrote:

But I think the 'democracy' thing started before 1812 and 1837. Look at Simcoe, he was hardly the average Lt Gov as per the rest of the Empire. The first thing he did was abolish slavery, or to more accurate, stopped the trading of slaves in Upper Canada. Truly before his time.

How is that democracy? Wasn't Simcoe subordinate to the king? Did the Canadian subjects dictate government?

There was a hint of democracy in Lower Canada however, see a little bit of this debate for evidence:

http://www.canadaka.net/modules.php?nam ... c&start=75

Sorry I'm too lazy to elaborate there's a gockey game on.

Quote:

If Brock hadn't managed Detroit in as spectacular a fashion as he had, it pretty much would have been a mere matter of marching

hmm. He sort of became the hero of Upper Canada after that one eh? You've read Pierre Berton haven't you?

[Tman1]

How so? It was one battle that was purely luck. Detroit would be given to the Americans anyway.

[Tman1]

Virgil wrote:

There was a hint of democracy in Lower Canada however, see a little bit of this debate for evidence:

I was addressing EyeBrocks words and that is hardly the epitome of democracy. Those decisions were made by the king and the British parliament, not the Canadian people.

[Arrow]

Virgil wrote:

hmm. He sort of became the hero of Upper Canada after that one eh? You've read Pierre Berton haven't you?

Initially. Good raconteur. Read Graves (thorough but dry), Malcomson (good all 'round), Benn. Working on Sheppard.

[Arrow]

Tman1 wrote:

How so? It was one battle that was purely luck. Detroit would be given to the Americans anyway.

No quibbling. But it wasn't a loss where one was expected. Hull snatched defeat from the jaws of victory. Is that how that burg across the water from Ottawa got its name?

[Tman1]

War is rarely won with expectations. The unexpected takes place where great generals dwell.

[Arrow]

Tman1 wrote:

War is rarely won with expectations. The unexpected takes place where great generals dwell.

Yeah but the proto-Las Vegas crowd weren't giving Brock good odds. Obviously he had first-line strength but not great depth while the Yanks were the other way around. However, better coaching made the game and some psychological playmaking made the difference

[Virgil]

Tman1 wrote:

How so? It was one battle that was purely luck. Detroit would be given to the Americans anyway.

There is always some luck involved in war. It's true that his assault on Detroit was very risky but this is why it was bold. It was the psycological effect on the rest of Upper Canada that was the primary significance of the battle (? is it really considered a battle?).

Quote:

that is hardly the epitome of democracy. Those decisions were made by the king and the British parliament, not the Canadian people.

Agreed