[hamiltonguyo]

I believe it was. Although certain members have accused me of being close minded and only using The Invasion of Canada by Pierre Berton I will use The History of The English Speaking Peoples by Winston Churchill instead.

"After much hesitation Castlereagh, now at the Foreign Office, announced in the House of Commons that the Government had done so(repealed the Orders in Council).But it was too late. The Atlantic crossing took to long for the news to reach america in time. On June 18, 1812, two days after Castlereagh's announcement, Congress declared war on Great Britain."

"The Causes of the conflict were stated in traditional terms: impressment, violations of the three-mile limit, blockades, and Orders in Council."

all of this due to lack of communication. Yes other factors swayed public opinion but these were the igniting factors.

some people have said that the war was a fight agaisnt opression in the other thread however it is acknowledged in both Churchill's and Berton's work that the people who pushed for the war most heavily called the War Hawks, had alterior motives, that being land which could only be had at the expense of the British and their indian allies. Lets also not forget America allied herself with Napoleon in this conflict...

[Tman1]

hamiltonguyo wrote:

I believe it was. Although certain members have accused me of being close minded and only using The Invasion of Canada by Pierre Berton I will use The History of The English Speaking Peoples by Winston Churchill instead.

"After much hesitation Castlereagh, now at the Foreign Office, announced in the House of Commons that the Government had done so(repealed the Orders in Council).But it was too late. The Atlantic crossing took to long for the news to reach america in time. On June 18, 1812, two days after Castlereagh's announcement, Congress declared war on Great Britain."

"The Causes of the conflict were stated in traditional terms: impressment, violations of the three-mile limit, blockades, and Orders in Council."

all of this due to lack of communication. Yes other factors swayed public opinion but these were the igniting factors.

some people have said that the war was a fight agaisnt opression in the other thread however it is acknowledged in both Churchill's and Berton's work that the people who pushed for the war most heavily called the War Hawks, had alterior motives, that being land which could only be had at the expense of the British and their indian allies. Lets also not forget America allied herself with Napoleon in this conflict...

Quote:

"After much hesitation Castlereagh, now at the Foreign Office, announced in the House of Commons that the Government had done so(repealed the Orders in Council).But it was too late. The Atlantic crossing took to long for the news to reach america in time. On June 18, 1812, two days after Castlereagh's announcement, Congress declared war on Great Britain."

Hmmm this is highly dubious and vague. This in itself does not prove that communications was a "main" cause of the war like you claim. Did you even read or copy and paste the full part of it?

Quote:

The Causes of the conflict were stated in traditional terms: impressment, violations of the three-mile limit, blockades, and Orders in Council."

Well, guess Winston old boy is wrong again. The whole thing started when American shipping to Europe was hampered by Britain who was at war with Napoleon. Granted you are correct about the impressment but British sailors were in short supply and Britain impressed American sailors either with full knowledge of them being Americans or not. Natually the Americans like anybody else would get mad. Winston obvously doesn't understand rudimentary or traditional means of waging war by 1812. American sovereignty and expansionism were the main causes of the war. Not lack of communication.

Quote:

all of this due to lack of communication. Yes other factors swayed public opinion but these were the igniting factors.

No, it was due to American War Hawks and British imperialism. You mention it below.

Quote:

some people have said that the war was a fight agaisnt opression in the other thread however it is acknowledged in both Churchill's and Berton's work that the people who pushed for the war most heavily called the War Hawks, had alterior motives, that being land which could only be had at the expense of the British and their indian allies.

Alright, stop there. You probably would have saved yourself just by saying that bit. All of which has nothing to do with lack of communication. You just contradicted yourself. The War Hawks were the ones pushing for war with British North America so why would it matter if lack of communication was the problem?

Quote:

Lets also not forget America allied herself with Napoleon in this conflict...

Really? Interesting because in most sources, the Americans were neutral and only concerned with their trading with Europe..hence a big factor in the War of 1812. Is this Winston talking or your own opinion in the matter?

The only lack of communication I know of the War of 1812 was when the British attacked New Orleans where lack of communication resulted in the British not knowing the war was over. Go figure.

[hamiltonguyo]

mpressment, violations of the three-mile limit, blockades, and Orders in Council

are the same things you said except not said in the same way. What I said was american expansionism and the British struggle with napoleon were the cause

HOWEVER

the war hawks would not have had the support to launch the war without the above violations which the British agreed to stop but unfourtunately too late...

the reason for the war is something completely different in this case

than the direct cause of the war

[Virgil]

I have to say I agree with Tman1 on this one. I read something a long those lines a couple of years ago.

[EyeBrock]

I agree with the T on this. Much of the war was due to the RN jumping on US vessels and impressing US citizens into serving HM Forces, and the intereference with US merchant ships due to Napoleonic blockades etc.

We all know this stuff pretty well. Bit of a duff thread really. Next we will have the old chestnut, "Who burnt the Whitehouse, Brits or Canadians?"

[Mustang1]

A quick overview of the causes (not necessarily in order of importance),

1. Retention of the Western Posts

2. The Amerindian Question

3. Jay’s Treaty

4. Impressment

5. Chesapeake Affair (1807)

6. Trade Warfare

7. American Amerindian Suspicions

8. War Hawks' Agitation

I’d say that this is pretty much standard fair in terms of historical consensus.

[hamiltonguyo]

WE all agree on the cause but might a war not have been delayed for a while at least if the orders in council repeals had reached america before the declaration..most of it would've been moot in a few years and it's quite possible in my opinion the war might not of happened if the spark hadn't come while Britain was busy in Europe.

oh and to the other question the British, but we were british at the time so I have no trouble telling americans we'll burn down their whitehouse if they misbehave(jokingly of course)

[EyeBrock]

Wrong, there were no Canadians involved in the burning of the Whitehouse, Colonial or otherwise. We hashed this out about a year ago.

[hamiltonguyo]

I never said there were any I said it was all british

but then pointed out we were british at the time(even though we had nothing to do with the burning) so we still sorta have the right to brag...

[EyeBrock]

Not really mate. It's true that Colonial Canadians were British subjects but I'm sure if you asked the average Upper Canada settler about his or her nationality they would beg to differ with you.

Colonial troops did do some good stuff in that war and it's well documented.

However the British Army with elements of the Roayl Marines burnt the Whitehouse.

[Virgil]

EyeBrock wrote:

Not really mate. It's true that Colonial Canadians were British subjects but I'm sure if you asked the average Upper Canada settler about his or her nationality they would beg to differ with you.

Colonial troops did do some good stuff in that war and it's well documented.

However the British Army with elements of the Roayl Marines burnt the Whitehouse.

True; few of the Upper Canadian residents were not of British decent, several being Irish and mostly American. However, the War of 1812 was a war that united the English colonies of Upper and Lower Canada -- pushed us away from American domination culturally and so. Though many of the settlers in Upper Canada were in fact American, the American declaration of war was a juge threat to their crops. It gives them common ground with the British subjects in wanting to repel the American invasion. Regardless of whether the residents of Upper Canada would "beg to differ" with hamiltonguy before the war, after it they were British Canadians.

Mustang1 ->

Quote:

4. Impressment

5. Chesapeake Affair (1807)

6. Trade Warfare

The Chesapeake affair was a result of British impressement. And, though impressement continued to trouble the Americans long after the Chesapeake ordeal, they had long since gotten over it by the time the war had been declared.

Trade warfare would cease to be a problem with the cancellation of the Orders in Council, however, this "trade warfare" had created a depression in the American south, who's people would retain a will for vengeance against the British.

[BartSimpson]

hamiltonguyo wrote:

Lets also not forget America allied herself with Napoleon in this conflict...

Uh, no we didn't. We damn near went to war with France for the same reasons we went to war against Britain and had the Parliament acted sooner on respecting the US we would have surely gone to war against France and there would possibly have been a rapprochement between the UK & the US.

The USA was not allied with anyone at all until World War One.

[Virgil]

I agree that the Americans were not allied during the War of 1812, they were very cautious about becoming involved in a Europaean conflict.

I have seen no evidence ever suggesting any Americans considered going to war with France at this time.

France was America's ally during their war for independence.

[Tman1]

I was going to comment on that highly dubious statement by Bart as well but mayhaps it was the impressment of Americans into French ships but that's all I can think of. I know of no such notion made by the US to wage war against France considering the British were blockading American vessels to prevent America from trading with France and Europe....

[Jaime_Souviens]

Virgil wrote:

France was America's ally during their war for independence.

That brief liason didn't last past the French Revolution.