[andyt]

So you're basically advocating an open border? Don't want to jail or deport the illegals, won't do any good to go after the employers. What's left?

I've never understood why the Democrats, especially the unions are so supportive of illegal immigration. Wait, I understand the Democrats, they get votes that way. But I don't understand the unions. I don't see how having legal people working for legal wages would break the economy. If they really need workers, they could use the immigration system to bring them in legally. But with 9% unemployment, and some illegals actually going home cause they can't find work in the US, I don't see the merit of that either.

[PublicAnimalNo9]

Hey, at least the US gets real Mexicans. In Essex County, Ontario, much of the migrant labour in the southern part is made up of Mexican Mennonites. They are white Mexicans of German descent with no latino blood in them whatsoever.
They are inbred(and no, I'm just saying that, they really are inbred). I have not met one that didn't stink like piss or shit or both. They are some of the laziest, filthiest shitbags I've ever run across.
When I was visiting friends in Minneapolis, they showed me a little neighbourhood that used to be a ghetto that is now predominantly Mexicans. The houses were painted bright colours, the properties were landscaped, there were flowers and shrubs everywhere. These people moved into one of the shittiest parts of the city, and vastly improved it . Prolly saved the city a few bucks not having to do it too.
Must be horrible having such hardworking people with some pride sneaking into your country. Wish we had that "problem".

[BartSimpson]

Thanos Thanos:

I'm fairly certain that American conservatives are quite happy to turn a blind eye to illegal immigration when it suits them too.

You're confusing Karl Rove-ish neo-cons with actual conservatives. I think I've been pretty clear that I hate and loathe the neo-cons probably as much as you do but for reasons that are conservative in nature.

To the matter of employers hiring illegals, I want to see the fines raised to $100,000 per incident and I want the executives of any company or corporation that hires illegals subject to criminal prosecution and serious prison time.

If we do this and enforce it then that'll fix much of our illegal problem overnight.

Instead, you're got the Democrats and the unions sucking up to the illegals because the kids of the illegals vote left when they grow up and you've got the traitorous neo-cons selling their national birthright on the altar of cheap labor because they worship Business as a god.

[andyt]

Shit, Bart and I agree. This can't be good.

Bart: I understand why the Demoncrats take the position they do. But why do the unions? What's in it for them?

[Thanos]

I actually agree with both of you on a lot of what you've both said. I'm just highly skeptical of the motivations of the anti-immigration crowd in places like Arizona.

BTW, I certainly don't begrudge the Americans the right to police their own borders, not after some of the things I've said here about some of the useless mooching bastards (like the sea-bourne Tamil invasion) that Canada keeps getting stuck with. Or the crazy Muslim freaks that Britain and Europe have foolishly allowed themselves to be afflicted with. Hell, if the whole thing were as cut-and-dried as the Americans shutting the borders just to ensure no one like Mohammed Atta ever again got residency and a green card I'd probably support it 100%.

But when it comes to Mexican, or latino immigration altogether, it's clearly a different story, and I think that I've provided valid reasons why I believe this. Mexicans aren't Al Qaeda infiltrators, and the benefits their labour provides to America should be more fairly and accurately weighed against whatever negatives some of them end up causing. This just isn't a problem that can be solved with the same old pointless 'smash it with a hammer' attitude that dominates the American right-wing these days. This is just scapegoating of a group of mostly hard-working people who really haven't done anything to deserve it.

[andyt]

The main negative the illegals cause is that they depress wages and don't pay taxes. As I say, if America really needs them, fine, bring them in legally, pay them legal wages and make them pay taxes. But with 9% unemployment, to me it makes more sense to put Americans to work first. And with the rich looting the country and busting unions, driving up wages by a shortage of workers seems like a good idea to me.

As for some people who are against immigration being racist - well I get called a racist for my stance. And if a flood of anglos came into Mexico to take jobs, you bet you'd see some racism against them. I guess I am racist, because I don't think it's the end of the world if people more or less stay where they are, in their own culture. Let's have some white European based countries - is that really so bad? Keep inflows at a level where the immigrants assimilate instead of trying to start their own little countries within countries. Eg the Latinos who want services in Spanish, don't learn English.

[BartSimpson]

andyt andyt:

Shit, Bart and I agree. This can't be good.

A definite sign of the End Times, indeed.

andyt andyt:

Bart: I understand why the Demoncrats take the position they do. But why do the unions? What's in it for them?

SEIU, in particular, has cozied up the the illegals as SEIU has organized janitorial and menial workers who tend to be illegals. SEIU more or less carved out for itself a niche of people where it can suck off union dues in the face of declining membership rolls in other categories.

The illegals flock to SEIU because it is an 'American' organization that gives the illegals an air of legitimacy in their claims against the USA for free health care and free education (all the way to the University level) for the children of illegals.

Thanks to SEIU the children of illegals enjoy lower tuition in California than do the kids of California residents and they pay far less than the tuition paid by the kids of out-of-state parents.

Consequently, by causing these taxpayer-funded subsidies to be paid out to illegals SEIU has captured the loyalty and membership of the illegals.

[Public_Domain]

[BartSimpson]

Thanos Thanos:

I actually agree with both of you on a lot of what you've both said. I'm just highly skeptical of the motivations of the anti-immigration crowd in places like Arizona.

BTW, I certainly don't begrudge the Americans the right to police their own borders, not after some of the things I've said here about some of the useless mooching bastards (like the sea-bourne Tamil invasion) that Canada keeps getting stuck with. Or the crazy Muslim freaks that Britain and Europe have foolishly allowed themselves to be afflicted with. Hell, if the whole thing were as cut-and-dried as the Americans shutting the borders just to ensure no one like Mohammed Atta ever again got residency and a green card I'd probably support it 100%.

But when it comes to Mexican, or latino immigration altogether, it's clearly a different story, and I think that I've provided valid reasons why I believe this. Mexicans aren't Al Qaeda infiltrators, and the benefits their labour provides to America should be more fairly and accurately weighed against whatever negatives some of them end up causing. This just isn't a problem that can be solved with the same old pointless 'smash it with a hammer' attitude that dominates the American right-wing these days. This is just scapegoating of a group of mostly hard-working people who really haven't done anything to deserve it.

Much of the impetus for the law in Arizona is due to the drug cartel violence crossing the border into Arizona. Arizona law enforcement needed tools to engage these criminals and the legislature provided them. Quite seriously, SB 1070 is not aimed at the people who go working the fields in Arizona, it's aimed at the MS-13 gang bangers who slaughter and behead people in Arizona.

Now it is also fair to note that prior to the cartels there's been a growing antipathy to Washington over the border especially from people along the border. Keep in mind that the 'Minute Men' arose on Bush's watch and Bush called them 'vigilantes' and then he was shamed into dealing with the problems these volunteers were highlighting...such as unchallenged incursions into the USA by the Mexican Army.

http://www.norcalblogs.com/gate/2011/02 ... ection.php

And here's a search result with 43,000 citations:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe ... =&aql=&oq=

I've a couple friends - Frank and Irma - who moved to a place literally on the border in 2001 and Frank told me of moving in and having the Mexican Army question him...at his house in Arizona. In 2009 he told me of being fired at from across the border and he says he shot five or six individuals with his rifle and he reported it to the state police and no one on the Mexican side reported it so the matter got dropped.

Such stories are not at all unique.

So when the issue of SB 1070 came up instead of dealing with the issues the Obama Admin found it easier to just denounce Arizona as 'racist' instead of doing their job and securing the border.

Speculation on my part, but I'm guessing that nothing much will happen here until enough Americans are dead that empty charges of racism won't wash away the blood.

[BartSimpson]

Mr_Canada Mr_Canada:

I don't believe any immigration should be considered illegal

Feel free to make that your national policy and we'll happily let 50 million Mexicans drive up I-5 to take over BC.

[Public_Domain]

[BartSimpson]

Curious: Is anyone else unable to pm Mr. Canada or is it just me?

[Public_Domain]

[BartSimpson]

Mr_Canada Mr_Canada:

No War at all

I totally support it. Now we just need to get seven billion other people to buy in and we'll be cool!

[Public_Domain]