[BartSimpson]

andyt andyt:

$1:

Enbridge spokesperson Paul Stanway said his company is simply meeting the demand that is here today, but if there was upgraded crude oil to sell to the world the pipeline would be able to move it there.

Not a word about NDP, natives, etc. That's the bullshit part.

Do you really think that such decisions take place in a vacuum independent from other issues extent in Canada and Alberta? If your notions about 'the rich' and 'multinational corporations' are representative of enough people in Canada do you not think that this will have an effect on foreign investment?

Three firms withdrew their proposals because it didn't make business sense to execute them. The remaining firm is talking up a storm but building nothing...probably because their investors are looking at why the other three consortiums withdrew and they're wondering if they should do the same thing.

*Maybe* if the pipeline is approved then maybe someone will want to reconsider the risks. But as it stands nothing is happening.

[andyt]

They withdrew their proposals because it made more business sense to just rip out the raw product and sell it for a quick buck. Building refineries just doesn't make sense, because we don't have the internal market for it, nor the infrastructure to move a multiplicity of products. Building upgraders makes sense tho, it seems to me. And as Caleb showed you, the AB govt had to get involved to build a refinery. They would face the same obstacles from natives and environmentalists as anybody else, but they seem to be going ahead.

[BartSimpson]

andyt andyt:

And as Caleb showed you, the AB govt had to get involved to build a refinery.

Then you're agreeing with the heart of my orignal post so the point of your argument with me was...what?

[Thanos]

A new refinery would be of direct benefit to Canadian drivers who presumably see a significant drop in fuel price if more local supply were made available. The problem is that there's no way to convince the oil companies that a lower fuel price is in their best interest. Greater supply = lower price = less profit for them. Fairly simple math anyway, which explains why the companies would much rather expand/upgrade refining capacity in Chicago or Houston instead of building a brand new facility in Alberta.

The cost of a new refinery would be in the billions anyway. Without both federal and provincial government funding and subsidies it'd be just too cost prohibitive for even a consortium of companies to do on their own.

[Thanos]

commanderkai commanderkai:

Thanos Thanos:

The Democrats control the Senate right now so there's no way this stupid stunt that's explicitly designed to embarass the President will pass anyway.

You don't think the Republicans can't get a small handful of Senators to go along with this? Somebody's pretty optimistic. Even if they can't, the Keystone pipeline will still be brought up in the election.

Keystone's going to happen regardless of who wins the election. The Senate GOP'ers are just trying to rub President Obama's nose in it for political reasons. If the 60-day review ends successfully it could even conceivably be approved before summer of this year. There's a large number of liberal Democrat whiners involved with the anti-Keystone nonsense. They might bitch about President Obama now but I don't seriously believe that they're going abandon him over this one issue, not with the hideous spectre of a Romney or Gingrich presidency looming. Obama's the only one in DC maintaining any semblance of sanity and the rank-and-file Dems would have to be insane themselves to give up on him just because he didn't turn out to be the second coming of Robert F. Kennedy.

[Saffron]

We had a refinery in Montreal, but they shut it down.

Shell Canada is converting its Montreal refinery into a storage centre for gasoline, diesel and aviation fuels, spelling the end for the 76-year-old facility after it failed to attract a buyer.

Job cuts are expected at the company's largest Canadian plant, with union representatives expressing concern that the overwhelming majority of its members will be left without work once the conversion is complete.

"Shell's preferred option was to sell the refinery, and despite significant efforts to market the facility to a number of parties, no buyer was found," Shell spokesman Larry Lalonde said.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/ ... osing.html