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PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 9:36 am
 


Once again, I see a thread appear on the site that makes me shake my head.

I've been on this site for several years now, and have pretty much seen it all. Good, bad, ugly, ridiculous, and everything in between. Members come, members go. Some make us laugh, others raise the hair on the back of our necks. Always though, we have had a team of mods on hand that make sure, no matter what the dynamic of the members here at the time, everyone has the opportunity to enjoy the site with the least amount of negativity possible.

Some of those mods devote an incredible amount of time to keeping CKA clean and enjoyable for everyone. They field complaints resulting from the "playground tiffs" (as I refer to them), arguments, personal attacks, spam attacks. I guess they're like our own little CKA police force. I suppose it shouldn't surprise me that they're treated as such. Yet it does.

Just as in the real world, there are rules. They are to be followed. If you do not follow the rules, there are consequences. Sometimes you'll get away with your little infractions, perhaps you'll get off with a warning. Eventually though, if you continue to break the rules, ignore the warnings issued, the cops are going to sit down, look at your list of infractions and go, "Ya know what. This one just doesn't care, will never follow the rules, and will continue to be a thorn in our side unless we put our foot down, so... *foot comes down* ".

It's the same here. There are rules on CKA. Posted very clearly in black and white for everyone to see. Yes, on occasion, everyone makes a mistake and maybe forgets one, or overlooks it, or simply gets caught up in a situation and out and out ignores it. Then our trusty mods step in, point out the rule, maybe issue a warning, and we're left to carry on. Fair? I think so.

Should a member continue to ignore the warnings and carry on to their own rule-breaking tune, and what choice does that leave our mods? Put their foot down. Often it seems, members assume that mods make snap decisions when issuing their warnings, temporary or permanent bans. That's not the case. More often than not, serious issues may be going on in the background for weeks, or even months before we ever hear of or see the results of them. The mods are dealing with them quietly, professionally, and with an incredible amount of patience in the background, so as not to disturb the flow around the site, and the enjoyment of the other members. Their reward - being questioned, criticized, ridiculed, accused of being biased. Remarks implying that the mods "had no right" to ban someone. Newsflash: Yes they do. As a matter of fact that's their thankless job. One that, I would like to remind, they do NOT get paid for.

No one says that you have to agree with everything that the mods here do, but you do have to remember one thing - you do NOT know the whole story (whereas they do), you have not been the one to field all of the pm's, arguments, flaming, complaints, etc., etc., for weeks or months on end, and you are the one that has no right to judge their actions. Actions by the mods are not performed swiftly or without thought and collaboration. As members, we need to respect those actions and trust that the volunteers in place are acting in the best interest of the site. Without them, most of us would have left a long time ago.

The rules here are simple. Follow them. If you don't, you get a warning. If you ignore enough warnings you're gone. It shouldn't be an issue or a debate. Typical of real life though, I suppose. Speed limits are posted in plain sight along every road, but if a driver chooses to ignore it and do 120 instead of the posted 100, who does he blame when he gets a speeding ticket? The cop. :roll:

The signs are posted, people. Don't blame our cops because you can't be bothered to read them or heed them.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 9:45 am
 


I don't think anyone complained about mods. I do think tho that we can state that we miss a certain person's posts. All we see is what a person posts on this board, and the only conclusion I can draw, is that sometimes, at least I (since I refuse to speak for someone else), find it weird that some people can post nasty shit to a poster, on the person, and others cannot. I personally have reported people who played it on the person (while they know nothing about me) and the mods response I got was "suck it up", while I was really hurt. I did not get told if there was any repercussion taken, whether a warning had gone on out to the person that attacked me, again, not on my post, but me as a person. I think that is wrong.

If the mods do not like the fact they get scrutinized and not get paid for what they do, they can always quit. The fact they do not get paid is not important.

Just my $0.02


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 10:35 am
 


I think the mods still have a bit of a tough job though. But they ARE needed. They don't just take into account what was said currently, but look at the history of the individual's posts. If they see a pattern, they may decide to ban a person. If said person doesn't normally engage in such rudeness, or doesn't have a history or being a prick to other members, they may just get a warning, either on the meter or a verbal/written warning.

I mention this because of a site I ran across last week while doing some general surfing. It was a forum I linked to( I forget the name) that seems to have VERY little moderation going on.
One thread in particular was very heated. It was atheists and religious people arguing like crazy.

Now, we've all seen some of the posts Derby has made when it comes to Western religion, but my God, his posts seemed sane, rational and well thought out compared to what was spewing from BOTH sides of the debate verbal rumble on this other site. Sadly, most of that thread degenerated into little more than name calling, insults and personal attacks. Turns out several of their threads were little more than bashing each other rather than debating or discussing anything.
Not a mod to be found anywhere either.

Despite some of the emotion that comes out in posts(myself included obviously lol), I've found that CKA feels a bit like home. Sure, we have our "fights" and disagreements like any other family, but at the end of the day, I know I'm not going to be personally attacked and verbally assaulted by a dozen people or more, for my POV on a given topic.
The mods generally ensure that doesn't happen, unless of course the poster is nothing more than a newbie that came here specifically to troll, or a member who is obviously trolling just for the sake of trolling.

I say this last part kind of in response to Brenda's comment about mods being scrutinized by the membership. They can always quit sure, but without mods, a forum just becomes another schoolyard playground where no-one but the serious assholes would have any enjoyment.
I know I come here to have fun, discuss or debate topics and even learn things.
Without moderators though, it can quickly devolve into something along the lines of, "You're just fucking stupid".
"Oh yeah? Well my dad can beat up your dad."


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 11:01 am
 


$1:
Without moderators though, it can quickly devolve into something along the lines of, "You're just fucking stupid".
"Oh yeah? Well my dad can beat up your dad."

And that says what about the posters again? ;-)

I agree mods are needed, but that doesn't mean they are "holier than thou" just because they are not being paid. Which, btw, is none of my business anyway, that is the site owners business.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 11:08 am
 


Brenda Brenda:
$1:
Without moderators though, it can quickly devolve into something along the lines of, "You're just fucking stupid".
"Oh yeah? Well my dad can beat up your dad."

And that says what about the posters again? ;-)

I agree mods are needed, but that doesn't mean they are "holier than thou" just because they are not being paid.

Oh, I agree wholeheartedly. But I can guarantee from personal experience at both ends of equation, calling out an admin/mod on the public forum is likely to get you banned pretty darned quick. :lol:
Derb should'a just left his comment in a pm.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 11:10 am
 


PublicAnimalNo9 PublicAnimalNo9:
Brenda Brenda:
$1:
Without moderators though, it can quickly devolve into something along the lines of, "You're just fucking stupid".
"Oh yeah? Well my dad can beat up your dad."

And that says what about the posters again? ;-)

I agree mods are needed, but that doesn't mean they are "holier than thou" just because they are not being paid.

Oh, I agree wholeheartedly. But I can guarantee from personal experience at both ends of equation, calling out an admin/mod on the public forum is likely to get you banned pretty darned quick. :lol:
Derb should'a just left his comment in a pm.

:lol:
I doubt that would have made a difference ;-)

If you go too far, you go too far.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 11:16 am
 


Brenda Brenda:
I doubt that would have made a difference ;-)

If you go too far, you go too far.

His mistake was the post he made after joking with raydan, and THEN following it up with some snottiness. If he'd have just done it pm (minus the snottiness), I'd bet he wouldn't have been banned.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 11:22 am
 


On another Forum making comments regarding one's position as Mod/Admin and using it as an Attack against that person is an automatic Vacation/Ban(after an initial warning). It's a well understood rule, yet some do it anyway, then suffer the consequence.

An example of the common usage: I can't believe that X, being a Mod of this site, would hold the opinion of Y!

Might seem tame to some, but it's annoying and a fallacious argument to begin with. It also became a constant form of Attack on practically every Mod/Admin on the site and needed to be dealt with as it made any discussion pointless.

I suppose I'm saying is: Rules is rules. If you've already been Vacationed/Banned for something in particular, it seems foolish to try it again later on. I don't hate people that do that, but I have no sympathy for them regarding the consequences either.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 11:35 am
 


Hell, I got banned from a site I helped put together. And I was an admin!!
Unfortunately, another admin( a latecomer who had NOTHING to do with setting the site up) called me out in the forum for a comment I made. After a few back and forths that weren't pretty, he got all Image on me and hit the ban button. This was actually the second time I got banned by a late comer admin.
I didn't bother going back and I didnt' bother talking to my friend(the actual site owner) about it because it was going to continue happening. Both of the people that banned me were guys that had the hots for the owner, but they lived in other countries. It was just pure jealousy because I got to spend time with her in person because we were practically neighbours. She literally lived down the street from me. We did date each other for about a year but it was an unmitigated disaster :lol: We worked MUCH better as just friends. Unfortunately, the losers that banned me thought I was their competition :roll:


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 12:07 pm
 


wildrosegirl wildrosegirl:
The signs are posted, people. Don't blame our cops because you can't be bothered to read them or heed them.


Yes, the laws need to be obeyed. And pretty much everyone who's been here for longer than a few months knows how things work around here, so there is no excuse when they are punished for breaking the rules.

However, some CKAers (rightly or wrongly) feel the rules are applied unfairly, ie. some get nailed to the cross and banned, while others who make similarly outrageous statements do not. I think the modding here is pretty good and I agree that most of us on CKA don't see the whole picture the way mods do, but that's not the point.

Perception sometimes is just as important as reality.

Now, I'm not saying that the mods need to ban someone with views counter to Derby to 'balance' things out, but when some posters see individuals with similar beliefs being banned while those with opposite views getting away essentially the same thing, it leads to people either; a) not visit CKA as much or, b) stopping coming here altogether.

That makes conversation/debate less rich and we all suffer for it IMHO.

Yes, mods don't get paid for doing what they do, but nobody on CKA gets paid for anything they do. I wrote dozens of movie reviews, hosted a radio show for close to two years, uploaded a couple dozen photos, start conversations on all sorts of topics, wrote a blog (well until I got laid off from my last job anyways), etc. Guess how much I've been paid for all of that? The same as the mods - nothing. I'm not looking for a pat on the back or anything, just pointing out that everyone at CKA contributes and none of us get paid.

As PA9 said, CKA feels like home. Many contribute here because they just want to make it a better place, not because they want a paycheck. At least that's my motivation. (Don't let that stop you from sending me a check though Trev! :) )

Finally, CKA is much more than just mods and posters in the forums. It all those other things I mentioned above and lots of other stuff too, like the arcade, the newslinks, etc.

I agree that modding is a difficult task, and no, I don't have an answer for how alleviate the feelings of those who feel slighted, but it's something to take into consideration when banning someone.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 12:10 pm
 


wildrosegirl wildrosegirl:
...

And once again, the voice of reason pops up in my head... funny thing, sounds like a girl. 8O

WRG, I don't think anybody questioned the decision, at least not all the hard. :wink:

Forgive me if I did, the message I wanted to pass in my posts was that I had no problem with Derby... that's it.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 12:58 pm
 


sandorski sandorski:
On another Forum making comments regarding one's position as Mod/Admin and using it as an Attack against that person is an automatic Vacation/Ban(after an initial warning). It's a well understood rule, yet some do it anyway, then suffer the consequence.


Yep. I moderate a couple of other forums (non-political) and while I don't mind comments in pm debating my decisions I have zero tolerance for them in the open forum. If the person signs up again and behaves I let it go. If they persist I ban their IP address.

This forum is pretty unique in that one point of view or another is not enforced over the others. The mods run the spectrum of views yet they never impose those views on others.

What they do is they enforce a standard of behavior.

As long as folks behave then there's nothing to worry about. Say what you want, just be nice about it is all.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 1:04 pm
 


So I'm guessing Derby stepped on his dick again, not really surprised at all. :lol:


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 2:28 pm
 


bootlegga bootlegga:
wildrosegirl wildrosegirl:
The signs are posted, people. Don't blame our cops because you can't be bothered to read them or heed them.


Yes, the laws need to be obeyed. And pretty much everyone who's been here for longer than a few months knows how things work around here, so there is no excuse when they are punished for breaking the rules.

However, some CKAers (rightly or wrongly) feel the rules are applied unfairly, ie. some get nailed to the cross and banned, while others who make similarly outrageous statements do not. I think the modding here is pretty good and I agree that most of us on CKA don't see the whole picture the way mods do, but that's not the point.

Perception sometimes is just as important as reality.

Now, I'm not saying that the mods need to ban someone with views counter to Derby to 'balance' things out, but when some posters see individuals with similar beliefs being banned while those with opposite views getting away essentially the same thing, it leads to people either; a) not visit CKA as much or, b) stopping coming here altogether.

That makes conversation/debate less rich and we all suffer for it IMHO.

Yes, mods don't get paid for doing what they do, but nobody on CKA gets paid for anything they do. I wrote dozens of movie reviews, hosted a radio show for close to two years, uploaded a couple dozen photos, start conversations on all sorts of topics, wrote a blog (well until I got laid off from my last job anyways), etc. Guess how much I've been paid for all of that? The same as the mods - nothing. I'm not looking for a pat on the back or anything, just pointing out that everyone at CKA contributes and none of us get paid.

As PA9 said, CKA feels like home. Many contribute here because they just want to make it a better place, not because they want a paycheck. At least that's my motivation. (Don't let that stop you from sending me a check though Trev! :) )

Finally, CKA is much more than just mods and posters in the forums. It all those other things I mentioned above and lots of other stuff too, like the arcade, the newslinks, etc.

I agree that modding is a difficult task, and no, I don't have an answer for how alleviate the feelings of those who feel slighted, but it's something to take into consideration when banning someone.

I agree with you. And no, it's not about getting paid or gaining recognition. I simply wanted to point out that, as everyone else, their contributions to the site are out of the kindness of their hearts and time from their daily lives. Just like yours are. Unfortunately, their contribution tends to come with a lot of s*** and abuse, scrutiny and disrespect. Paid or not, no one should have to contend with that.
$1:
However, some CKAers (rightly or wrongly) feel the rules are applied unfairly, ie. some get nailed to the cross and banned, while others who make similarly outrageous statements do not.

On this point, again, we may feel it's unfair based on what we know. Usually, we don't know the whole story. So it's unfair of us to question the mods actions. We have to trust that they're acting responsibly and in the best interest of the site, based on the full set of facts.

raydan raydan:
wildrosegirl wildrosegirl:
...

And once again, the voice of reason pops up in my head... funny thing, sounds like a girl. 8O

WRG, I don't think anybody questioned the decision, at least not all the hard. :wink:

Forgive me if I did, the message I wanted to pass in my posts was that I had no problem with Derby... that's it.
.
Nothing was directed specifically at one member. Certainly not you. :lol:

As I said, I've been here a long time, and seen most everything. The question was underlying. In the past, it's only a matter of time before it turns into a flaming debate. My post was simply meant as a reminder. This site is for everyone to enjoy and rules were put into place to see to it that we do. Those who choose not to follow, will no longer be able to come out and play. We have a group of trustworthy folks around here that decide who gets added to the naughty list and we shouldn't criticize or question their actions. As I said, they are usually the only ones around here that actually know the whole story around a situation. The rest of us just hear bits and pieces. Let them do their job and let's appreciate their efforts. Just as everyone else who contributes to this site.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 2:32 pm
 


$1:
Those who choose not to follow, will no longer be able to come out and play. We have a group of trustworthy folks around here that decide who gets added to the naughty list and we shouldn't criticize or question their actions.

They are the adults, and we are the kids? :?


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