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PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 12:17 pm
 


llama66 llama66:
And for the record I think his interview for "military intelligence" is pure and utter tripe.


Why? Edward Snowden and Bradley Manning managed to get jobs, why shouldn't our friend here?

I'm not siding with him, mind you, I'm just saying that it's obvious that the people running military intelligence are not so intelligent themselves.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 12:22 pm
 


llama66 llama66:
Again my whole problem is all these allegations. He offers no evidence other than his word. If such egregious violation were occurring why not contact an entity like the media? They love hanging crooked cops out to dry.

It sounds to me like a lot of hyperbole.

As for the "Terrorist" comment it was a valid question, to which he responds with am I a provocateur. So of course I'm going to harangue the guy. If he is so lacking in foresight that he can't see that he's visited most of his misfortune upon himself by doing stupid things like calling the Heritage Front after a bunch of black kids roll him, how is that on us if he doesn't realize the optics of that. He says he didn't leave a message, but still to admit that that was his first call after the police couldn't help him, what does that look like to you?

I take serious offence to people who act stupidly and them blame others for their situation, he has taken no ownership for his situation. Your damn right I'm hostile towards this guy. When he can realize that he is the product of his decisions, then maybe I will engage him as an Adult.

And for the record I think his interview for "military intelligence" is pure and utter tripe.



I love your rationale. Funny that you are are open to disbelieving anything I state about what the apparatus is doing to me, the stick I received to my balls, my interview with the CAF etc. but you have no problem believing all of the things I admitted to doing. With such obvious bias, why even engage in the conversation?

I don't want to rehash the entire Heritage Front history, believe me there is a great deal out there including a session of Parliamentary Subcommittee Hearing that took place in 1995 to discuss the extent of what CSIS was doing with their prized undercover Grant Bristow. He resurfaced years later as Nathan Black, pretending to be a reporter for the Seattle Times when getting involved in the Edmonton elections...he was taken to court for this. You can be sure that if you made a phone call to the Heritage Front Hotline number you are in a DB somewhere. Doesn't matter if you knew who they were, joined the group, met the group or dialed the wrong number, you are flagged.

How about the RCMP actions in Montebello, Quebec? The taser case in B.C that cost a Polish citizen his life and for which the police lied on the stand. Ian Bush taking a bullet in the back of the head and the officer being docked 1 days pay? If you think somehow all citizens grievances are b.s and all federal police agents are the salt of the earth, you are even more naive than I am.

Bottom line is that in a democracy, "pissing someone off" isn't grounds for lifetime persecution. I am not going to apply for asylum based on hate speech, as I have not been involved in hate speech, the dispersement of hate or violence against anyone. I have had a number of Domestic and Internationally protected Rights stripped from me, including though not limited to threats of violence, though that is only one of the issues. I am a simple, naive, justice loving citizen who believes in the rule of law. This isn't 1105 where pissing off the King is cause for being beheaded. If I hadn't pursued a legal action and been denied access to my evidence that they hold in their dossier, I would be in a different position, but I conducted all the steps I was supposed to in order to alleviate my persecution.

If you have any constructive ideas, fire away. If you have a newspaper contact willing to expose CSIS, let me know (good luck getting any paper willing to piss off CSIS).


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 12:26 pm
 


BartSimpson BartSimpson:
llama66 llama66:
Again my whole problem is all these allegations. He offers no evidence other than his word. If such egregious violation were occurring why not contact an entity like the media? They love hanging crooked cops out to dry.


I just read what he wrote and nothing seems outrageous to me. You can read literally thousands of such stories out on the net with one of the better sites and archives being this one:

http://www.policemisconduct.net/

Myself, I've worked as a reserve LEO in California (not much lately due to budget cuts) and in the course of just doing what mostly amounts to glorified security guard work I've seen several instances of police abuse. The worst was the following case:

http://www.sacbee.com/2012/10/11/490083 ... fatal.html

I wasn't there when it happened but I was there less than five minutes after it was called in.

As I was told, Luis Gutierrez attacked the officers, he was possibly on PCP, he was armed with a pistol that no one was able to find, and he'd shot at the officers and they shot back in self defense.

The truth was far different than that crock o' bull.

In any case, our friend here getting beaten with truncheons is pretty mild. Give me a while and I'll provide you with lawsuits that have been filed because of male and female inmates being sodomized with truncheons by law enforcement.

What the OP posted was entirely believeable to me and his allegations, had they happened in California, would be enough to bring to a grand jury for indictments.


I get that, my old man was LEO and of course you give that kind of power to someone and there is a chance they may become corrupt. I was LEO before I got my leg mangled (as you may remember) now I do work in security, and I don't doubt that he got beat by the police, I've seen them get "aggressive" with people we've turned over to them, its the decisions the guy has made, there are 3 sides to most stories, and I firmly believe there is more to this than this guy lets on.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 12:28 pm
 


shockedcanadian shockedcanadian:
If you have any constructive ideas, fire away. If you have a newspaper contact willing to expose CSIS, let me know (good luck getting any paper willing to piss off CSIS).


The Guardian will do it. :idea:

http://www.theguardian.com/us


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 12:28 pm
 


$1:
why would I have been interviewed for an intelligence role in the military in my 20s? This request came from the military themselves as I was applying to do my part in other areas of the forces.


Having gone through this process successfully, I know you aren't requested to apply for a specific position. You are given aptitude tests, and that determines which trades and careers you can apply for, based on openings. However, that all being said, maybe things have changed. Others who were in more recently may have a better insight. Military Intelligence is something that most liberal arts(Psych, Poli Sci, History, Geography and Education) types easily qualify for, so it's nothing special.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 12:30 pm
 


BartSimpson BartSimpson:
llama66 llama66:
And for the record I think his interview for "military intelligence" is pure and utter tripe.


Why? Edward Snowden and Bradley Manning managed to get jobs, why shouldn't our friend here?

I'm not siding with him, mind you, I'm just saying that it's obvious that the people running military intelligence are not so intelligent themselves.

Not since they are 'flagged'.

If you have a problem in your childhood, and you get interviewed by the military years later, and nothing comes up, and you make an issue of your 'passport being taken' for 45 minutes (happens to immigrants all the time...), I dunno. I don't necessarily care either. My issue is not really with his story, but with his 'I want asylum somewhere'. He must have his reasons, and that is his story. Regardless of what story.

Point is, as long as you don't have to fear for your life, you don't have your right to free speech taken away, and you can still travel... Asylum is not going to happen. But he could just apply for a work visa, or a PR visa in the country of his choosing.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 12:32 pm
 


shockedcanadian shockedcanadian:
llama66 llama66:
Again my whole problem is all these allegations. He offers no evidence other than his word. If such egregious violation were occurring why not contact an entity like the media? They love hanging crooked cops out to dry.

It sounds to me like a lot of hyperbole.

As for the "Terrorist" comment it was a valid question, to which he responds with am I a provocateur. So of course I'm going to harangue the guy. If he is so lacking in foresight that he can't see that he's visited most of his misfortune upon himself by doing stupid things like calling the Heritage Front after a bunch of black kids roll him, how is that on us if he doesn't realize the optics of that. He says he didn't leave a message, but still to admit that that was his first call after the police couldn't help him, what does that look like to you?

I take serious offence to people who act stupidly and them blame others for their situation, he has taken no ownership for his situation. Your damn right I'm hostile towards this guy. When he can realize that he is the product of his decisions, then maybe I will engage him as an Adult.

And for the record I think his interview for "military intelligence" is pure and utter tripe.



I love your rationale. Funny that you are are open to disbelieving anything I state about what the apparatus is doing to me, the stick I received to my balls, my interview with the CAF etc. but you have no problem believing all of the things I admitted to doing. With such obvious bias, why even engage in the conversation?

I don't want to rehash the entire Heritage Front history, believe me there is a great deal out there including a session of Parliamentary Subcommittee Hearing that took place in 1995 to discuss the extent of what CSIS was doing with their prized undercover Grant Bristow. He resurfaced years later as Nathan Black, pretending to be a reporter for the Seattle Times when getting involved in the Edmonton elections...he was taken to court for this. You can be sure that if you made a phone call to the Heritage Front Hotline number you are in a DB somewhere. Doesn't matter if you knew who they were, joined the group, met the group or dialed the wrong number, you are flagged.

How about the RCMP actions in Montebello, Quebec? The taser case in B.C that cost a Polish citizen his life and for which the police lied on the stand. Ian Bush taking a bullet in the back of the head and the officer being docked 1 days pay? If you think somehow all citizens grievances are b.s and all federal police agents are the salt of the earth, you are even more naive than I am.

Bottom line is that in a democracy, "pissing someone off" isn't grounds for lifetime persecution. I am not going to apply for asylum based on hate speech, as I have not been involved in hate speech, the dispersement of hate or violence against anyone. I have had a number of Domestic and Internationally protected Rights stripped from me, including though not limited to threats of violence, though that is only one of the issues. I am a simple, naive, justice loving citizen who believes in the rule of law. This isn't 1105 where pissing off the King is cause for being beheaded. If I hadn't pursued a legal action and been denied access to my evidence that they hold in their dossier, I would be in a different position, but I conducted all the steps I was supposed to in order to alleviate my persecution.

If you have any constructive ideas, fire away. If you have a newspaper contact willing to expose CSIS, let me know (good luck getting any paper willing to piss off CSIS).


As I asked you several pages ago (which you ignored) what charter rights have you "been stripped" of? clearly not freedom speech and opinion, so what?

And the media loves scandal. (Look at Rob Ford, the Quebec mayor scandals, The Senate Scandal, The related PMO scandal, the RCMP scandals, we both know many others...) The media would follow up and if there was something the'd run with it.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 12:38 pm
 


ShepherdsDog ShepherdsDog:
$1:
why would I have been interviewed for an intelligence role in the military in my 20s? This request came from the military themselves as I was applying to do my part in other areas of the forces.


Having gone through this process successfully, I know you aren't requested to apply for a specific position. You are given aptitude tests, and that determines which trades and careers you can apply for, based on openings. However, that all being said, maybe things have changed. Others who were in more recently may have a better insight. Military Intelligence is something that most liberal arts(Psych, Poli Sci, History, Geography and Education) types easily qualify for, so it's nothing special.


"Nothing special". I am sure all of the Canadian and allied soldiers risking their asses in hostile territory don't take their roles lightly. It isn't something the average person can do, you certainly won't see many civilian police officers or undercover agents throwing their hands up for such a role. Also, when I applied I was told to put down two careers which I wanted to pursue, a first and second choice and they would try to accommodate based on need. It was based on their judgement (you are correct, after the aptitude, physical and mathematical tests) that I interview for an intelligence position.

I have a great respect for the risks some people are taking in order to protect our freedoms and way of life. Something I don't forget when I am working to hold these domestic agencies to the task of abiding by the freedoms others have and are sacrificing for.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 12:38 pm
 


llama66 llama66:
...there are 3 sides to most stories, and I firmly believe there is more to this than this guy lets on.


Maybe. Maybe not.

Attracting the attention of a cop doesn't always require an instigating act on the part of the recipient/suspect. Sometimes they just don't like the way you look, is all. And that mystickal, magickal badge of theirs lets them do most anything they want and they know it.

Granted, most cops are great people who put it on the line every day. But I still fault those people for almost uniformly being silent about the abuses of the minority.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 12:57 pm
 


[/quote]

As I asked you several pages ago (which you ignored) what charter rights have you "been stripped" of? clearly not freedom speech and opinion, so what? [/quote]


FUNDAMENTAL FREEDOMS.
2. Everyone has the following fundamental freedoms:
(b) freedom of thought, belief, opinion and expression, including freedom of the press and other media of communication;

LIFE, LIBERTY AND SECURITY OF PERSON.
7. Everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of the person and the right not to be deprived thereof except in accordance with the principles of fundamental justice.

12. Everyone has the right not to be subjected to any cruel and unusual treatment or punishment.


ENFORCEMENT OF GUARANTEED RIGHTS AND FREEDOMS / Exclusion of evidence bringing
administration of justice into disrepute.
24. (1) Anyone whose rights or freedoms, as guaranteed by this Charter, have been infringed or denied may apply to a court of competent jurisdiction to obtain such remedy as the court considers appropriate and just in the circumstances.
(2) Where, in proceedings under subsection (1), a court concludes that evidence was obtained in a manner that infringed or denied any rights or freedoms guaranteed by this Charter, the evidence shall be excluded if it is established that, having regard to all the circumstances, the admission of it in the proceedings would bring the administration of justice into disrepute.

You might recall, if you read my entire story that I put forward a Motion of Disclosure to the Crown. This was a legal request for access to the dossier which they had on me. They immediately worked to Strike my entire lawsuit AND demand that their motion superseed the motion that I already put forward. They in fact circumvented the law, and through the entire process they never pleaded not-guilty.

These are just the Canadian Charter obligations that they violated, the Universal Declaration of Human Rights goes further and Canada has violated many more under that agreement.

You see, as I have stated. I didn't just wake up after a bad interaction with a police officer; the vast majority in UNIFORM I admire. This has been an 8 year saga, and a 20 year persecution. I have given them ample and thorough opportunities to either come clean or right the wrong, they choose to play the power card (surprise). They have a very smug and arrogant opinion: "Human Right? What Human Rights? We do as we please" The courts reinforce this attitude unfortunately.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 1:04 pm
 


BartSimpson BartSimpson:
llama66 llama66:
...there are 3 sides to most stories, and I firmly believe there is more to this than this guy lets on.


Maybe. Maybe not.

Attracting the attention of a cop doesn't always require an instigating act on the part of the recipient/suspect. Sometimes they just don't like the way you look, is all. And that mystickal, magickal badge of theirs lets them do most anything they want and they know it.

Granted, most cops are great people who put it on the line every day. But I still fault those people for almost uniformly being silent about the abuses of the minority.


Agreed, it is the "rotten apples" that give all the other LEO's a bad name.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 1:10 pm
 


shockedcanadian shockedcanadian:

FUNDAMENTAL FREEDOMS.
2. Everyone has the following fundamental freedoms:
(b) freedom of thought, belief, opinion and expression, including freedom of the press and other media of communication;

You're here, you're talking. You're thinking. You're expressing yourself.
If you want to go to the press, go. If they don't want to run your story, that is not a right being taking away, that is their business decision.
$1:
LIFE, LIBERTY AND SECURITY OF PERSON.
7. Everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of the person and the right not to be deprived thereof except in accordance with the principles of fundamental justice.
You're not incarcerated, right? You can travel, you don't have a gun pointed at you, you can eat, get groceries, go to work, have sex with whomever you want. So that one doesn't fly either.
$1:
12. Everyone has the right not to be subjected to any cruel and unusual treatment or punishment.
Define 'cruel and unusual'.
$1:
ENFORCEMENT OF GUARANTEED RIGHTS AND FREEDOMS / Exclusion of evidence bringing
administration of justice into disrepute.
24. (1) Anyone whose rights or freedoms, as guaranteed by this Charter, have been infringed or denied may apply to a court of competent jurisdiction to obtain such remedy as the court considers appropriate and just in the circumstances.
(2) Where, in proceedings under subsection (1), a court concludes that evidence was obtained in a manner that infringed or denied any rights or freedoms guaranteed by this Charter, the evidence shall be excluded if it is established that, having regard to all the circumstances, the admission of it in the proceedings would bring the administration of justice into disrepute.
That is in court, right?
$1:
You might recall, if you read my entire story that I put forward a Motion of Disclosure to the Crown. This was a legal request for access to the dossier which they had on me. They immediately worked to Strike my entire lawsuit AND demand that their motion superseed the motion that I already put forward. They in fact circumvented the law, and through the entire process they never pleaded not-guilty.

These are just the Canadian Charter obligations that they violated, the Universal Declaration of Human Rights goes further and Canada has violated many more under that agreement.

You see, as I have stated. I didn't just wake up after a bad interaction with a police officer; the vast majority in UNIFORM I admire. This has been an 8 year saga, and a 20 year persecution. I have given them ample and thorough opportunities to either come clean or right the wrong, they choose to play the power card (surprise). They have a very smug and arrogant opinion: "Human Right? What Human Rights? We do as we please" The courts reinforce this attitude unfortunately.

Courts take long, unfortunately. I still do not see any reason why any country should grant you asylum.
I also don't see any reason why any country would not grant you a work permit, based on this info. Which means you could just leave the country and settle somewhere else, were you granted a visa (which btw is not a right), without never being able to come back...

I don't think living the life of a refugee is that much fun either... Lots of rules and regulations.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 1:37 pm
 


shockedcanadian shockedcanadian:
CanadianJeff CanadianJeff:
Frankly I just think your insane. First your talking about Asylum in another country because of a few (if your stories true) bad cops and thinking somehow that adds up to some massive conspiracy to make you a secondary citizen.

No concept of scale or scope of any kind. It doesn't make you a bad person just ignorant and unwise.

My advise is just to put in on the shelf and forget about it. If the US decides not to let you in it could be more a million reasons. Hell I've heard of people not being allowed to cross the border simply because they share the same name as someone on a watchlist. You don't have some inherent right to enter the US. That's not how border crossing works. They can simply decide you look too sketchy and turn you away.


They didn't deny me entry, but they took our passports and made us wait while they contacted the Canadian government about the flag in the system. They then provided me a redacted file, protecting the name of the "enforcement agency" in Canada that provided the concern for them at the border. Quite frankly I get the feeling the U.S border guards didn't appreciate the b.s that our agencies were putting them through and we were told that they didn't have a problem with us but to contact our government. All of this is explained in the original link and reconveyed here...

Your advice isn't actually advice at all. Especially considering I tried this path years ago. I am in contact with the DHS to help clear up the mess that CSIS and the RCMP created. Barring all avenues, of course I will be seeking asylum, what would you do if all that I have stated occurred against you?


I wouldn't go online to an internet forum and cry about it and I wouldn't put too much stock into it. Like I just stated sometimes these things happen simply because you share a name with someone who is on a list. You are so overreacting and frankly blowing this way out of scope that it makes me worry about your ability to just handle everyday life.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 2:56 pm
 


shockedcanadian shockedcanadian:
This has been an 8 year saga, and a 20 year persecution.


You're to be admired for your patience. I doubt that I'd be so patient in your position.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 4:49 pm
 


BartSimpson BartSimpson:
shockedcanadian shockedcanadian:
This has been an 8 year saga, and a 20 year persecution.


You're to be admired for your patience. I doubt that I'd be so patient in your position.


I can assure you it wasn't by choice. Once I realized what was happening eight years ago I did all I could to find a resolution.


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