[Scape]

The 'sanity' of a think tank is your perception. They are very right of center but the synopsis of the total debt is accurate. This shows as of 2000 the Debt to be 1.9 trillion. The Globe and Mail have reported that Canada's debt will be lowest in G7. That is a direct result from seven consecutive annual surpluses. Even with a Billion dollar gun registry and poltical scandals in Quebec. Here is the report and here is the Xls spread. You will need Excel to view it.

[Rev_Blair]

Your missing my point, Scape. We're doing the best in the G7 at debt reduction. That weakens, by leaps and bounds, the Fraser Institute's case that we are being mismanaged. More than that, it frees money up for social spending, damaging their case against that.

At their anniversary party the other day, their brave leader said that his next goal was to privatise medicare. They've been saying that Canada should get out of the pension business for years. They've said that we should adopt the American dollar. I can list pages of things that they've said that are not what the Canadian people have said they want in poll after poll and election after election. The Fraser Institute is full of right-wing ideologues who would privatise Parliament if they could.

As a result they will always pick the worst set of numbers, and present it in the worst possible context. They say,

$1:

Compared with other high-income nations Canada has one of the highest debt burdens, measured as the ratio of debt to discretionary income per person. (High-income nations, as defined by the World Bank, are those with
average incomes in excess of US$9076). With our debt burden, Canada ranked 14th out of 19 high-income countries in 2001.

They do not mention that we are doing the best among G-7 nations of paying down that debt, and certainly aren't looking for ways to raise Canadian's discretionary income because they've argued against union deals and rises in the minimum wage in the past. What they want to do, all they want to do, is scare people into accepting the privatisation of social programs.

Using the Fraser Institute's data and press releases does not strengthen your case, instead it puts people on guard and lends credence to the harmful rantings of those who would turn Canada into nothing but a tax haven for corporations.

[RoyalHighlander]

Canadaka Canadaka:

can someone clarify the difference between debt and deficit?

Spelled differently I think LOL

[Rev_Blair]

Deficit is when you pay your credit cards off every month. Debt is what happens when you don't.

[RoyalHighlander]

Rev_Blair Rev_Blair:

That's the provincial debt, Mario. Ralph paid it off on the backs of the poor and is still all he can to deny them any help whatsoever.

You got that right Rev... Poor folks here that have no choice but to rely on social programmes are starving here, its not a joke... A single person here in AB gets around 530.00 a month on social assistance.. How can a person live on that?? I know you will say get a job, but there are some that honestly need that assistance, and are not lazy or cheating.. That amount oputs them wayyy below the poverty line.. And housing here is becoming expensive too because of the oil boom prices are goping up... Take ft MacMurray... a 2 bedroom apt is renting for 1200.00 to 1600.00 a month.. workers at MacDonalds are gettinmg 10.00 to 12.00 /hr to start.. That should give you an idea...The wife was on AISH because of her blindness , and we were allowed to earn a set amount, I worked part time and we were allowed to keep the first 200.00 of what I earned, after that it was deducted dollar for dollar from her pension.. Its like they dont want you to get ahead at all... You even have to claim any money won at bingo.. which they will take off your benifits, but you cant claim your losses though LOL... That why I decided to get back to work even though my health is not great either, but ill put up with the problems I have to give us back our self respect and dignity...And then Raplh cant tell us what to do any more..

[Robair]

Federal government on track for another sizeable surplus

$1:

In only the first five months of the current fiscal year, Ottawa ran a surplus of $4.7 billion - up almost $1 billion from the surplus reported during the same period a year ago en route to that $9 billion windfall, according to Finance documents released Thursday.

[Scape]

Rev_Blair Rev_Blair:

Your missing my point, Scape. We're doing the best in the G7 at debt reduction. That weakens, by leaps and bounds, the Fraser Institute's case that we are being mismanaged. More than that, it frees money up for social spending, damaging their case against that.

The Fraser Institute's data and press releases were not used to validate a policy of privatization on my part. Where do you read that I am stating this? If anything the CAP party is against everything (globalization, annexation to the US under FTA,NAFTA and FTAA and privatization of all government services) the Fraser Institute is advocating. I am citing their statics as a worse case scenario to highlight the total size of the debt not to go on a privatization spree.

[Rev_Blair]

I guess I'm not making myself clear enough, Scape. The people most likely to show an interest in your party (and I think everybody should have a close look at it, by the way) are the same people who are likely to see you quoting Fraser Institute stats and not look any further into what you are saying as a result. They scare the hell out of a lot of people.

The same statistics are available from other sources, ones that will not frighten off potential supporters.

Conversely, quoting the Fraser Institute's stats lends credence to their agenda.

[jerrysb]

what the fraser institute was talking about wasn't debt. It was whats called LIABILITIES. liabilities as everyone here probably knows are costs that will have to be paid in the future (which is why politicians don't bother with it). Basically, canada is 1.9 trillion dollars in the hole. This is the amount that we would need to fill in the future deficits in social security, medicare and the list goes on. Please keep in mind that 1.9 trillion dollars, while a staggering amount is nothing but a number. It doesn't tell you good or bad, just that it's there. Also, the fraser institute, a right wing group will muddle their numbers to help themselves, just as any left wing group would do, so take "facts" with a certaingrain of salt.

[jerrysb]

oh yeah before i forget, while our debt is 500 billion, it's less than 50% of our GDP, and as a percentage to our assets, a much smaller number.

Even if interest rates went up, they wouldn't affect our budget much. Therefore i think our surpluses should go towards building up our infrastructure, educating our people, putting more money towards the military, and maybe a few "choice" tax breaks. We should remember that money doesn't solve problems.

[Rev_Blair]

I don't think it's a good idea to earmark the surplus for anything other than one-time expenditures, Jerry. I don't think we should consider tax cuts until the debt is gone either. The Liberals should have a hard look at how they come up with the numbers though. Math ain't that hard.

[Rev_Blair]

I dunno Avro...after all the heat they've taken for this one, they might decide to introduce some new spending to use up the surplus. Political reality is kind of tough for a minority government.

Of course they've been creating the surplus on purpose. Martin is obsessed with the debt so, since current laws require any surplus to go toward the debt, he runs a surplus on purpose. He did it as Finance Minister and now that he's PM he does it even more.

[Rev_Blair]

I bet, that they introduce some new spending to take the heat off themselves. Either that or introduce some new accounting methods that help to hide the actual amount of the surplus.

This is kind of weird. We basically agree on what they're doing, I'm just betting that they try to hide it. You are betting that they remain as arrogant as ever, even in a minority government.