[BartSimpson]

QBC QBC:

One of the kids that played on my lacrosse team last year is a perfect example. He gets out of high school, gets an apprenticeship as a carpenter. He busts his ass working every hour he can get his hands on no matter how far away the job is or how remote the oil patch camp he has to go to. He busts his hump is school to get the theoretical part of the apprenticeship done and done well all the while paying rent and all his own bills. He finishes, gets his journeyman wage, bought a brand new Chevy 3/4 ton and paid it off in two years. He just bought himself a condo with half, that's right, HALF the money down. He's 22 years old. That's the difference between those who want a good life and those who want a good life and are prepared to work to get it.

He didn't work hard.

He was lucky.

He had advantages other people don't have.

He cheated.

He's white.

He's won life's lottery.

It's unfair.

(Just thought I'd get the BS retorts out of the way all at once. )

[Brenda]

$1:

But they're poor because someone else is doing okay.

Says who?

[KorbenDeck]

andyt andyt:

How people here can shrug off stagnating wages for low and middle income, with a sharp increase for the few at the top is beyond me.

They want cheap goods at Wal-Mart. That is what it boils down to, we want more money but at the same time we do not want to spend it, threw either taxes or goods. Raising wages in Canada is simple enough, doing it though is impossible due to the nature of Canadians being very short sighted. We can save 5 dollars at the cashier now, doesn't matter that doing so will cost Canada billions later on in lost wages.

[martin14]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

andyt andyt:

How people here can shrug off stagnating wages for low and middle income, with a sharp increase for the few at the top is beyond me.

If we cut the wages for those at the top how, pray tell, will that improve the status of those on the low and middle tiers?

By proper income redistribution, of course.

Taxing people who earn well and simply giving it to others,
is andy's raison d'etre.

[BionicBunny]

The problem I have seen over this past year and have taken note from various companies is the greatly reduced hours people are given. It is now not uncommon for people to work 2-3 jobs to get by.

It's a very nasty system. Companies wonder why people are not speding as much so they reduce hours, people with reduced hours spend less because of the new uncertainty. Companies then again wonder why things are not getting better so they cut back even more. Wash, rinse, repeat.

We had this one hardworking employee (of many) who left us this year in search of greener pastures. We were basically starving her with the hours she was reduced to. Her potential new supervisor called up the old supervisor and a 20 minute chat ensued. The new supervisor asked many questions. The old employee had filled an application online (which many companies use now) and came back for multiple interviews. After the old supervisor gave the former employee a glowing report, she asked the new employer "so, how many hours a week will she get as a cashier?". The response was "four".

Welcome to the new working world. People are not entitled to a higher paying job without further education and hard work but they are at least entitled to not having their lives played with.

[Choban]

$1:

How people here can shrug off stagnating wages for low and middle income, with a sharp increase for the few at the top is beyond me.

Its a fact of life, plus there are very few ceo's and rich folk that started that way, the majority of them were piss poor or at least working class that took the bull by the horns and either created their opportunities or worked their way up while educating themselves, they are where they are in our society today because they worked for it and earned it, thats how the system works.

[SprCForr]

There's a superficial appeal to cheap stuff. That appeal only lasts until people realize it's actually cheaper in the long run to shell out for quality. An example of this would be the auto industry and it's run in the last 40 years. NA quality morphed into econobox junk and the Asian steeped up, built better and look what happened.

I agree with KD, sending our industry overseas was a mistake. Cheap chinese steel kills the industry here and worse than that, it can suffocate industry research into a better product. Well, I suppose that's what happens when bean counters are in charge.

[BartSimpson]

BionicBunny BionicBunny:

The problem I have seen over this past year and have taken note from various companies is the greatly reduced hours people are given. It is now not uncommon for people to work 2-3 jobs to get by.

It's a very nasty system. Companies wonder why people are not speding as much so they reduce hours, people with reduced hours spend less because of the new uncertainty. Companies then again wonder why things are not getting better so they cut back even more. Wash, rinse, repeat.

We had this one hardworking employee (of many) who left us this year in search of greener pastures. We were basically starving her with the hours she was reduced to. Her potential new supervisor called up the old supervisor and a 20 minute chat ensued. The new supervisor asked many questions. The old employee had filled an application online (which many companies use now) and came back for multiple interviews. After the old supervisor gave the former employee a glowing report, she asked the new employer "so, how many hours a week will she get as a cashier?". The response was "four".

Welcome to the new working world. People are not entitled to a higher paying job without further education and hard work but they are at least entitled to not having their lives played with.

As an individual, this employee you speak of needs to go back to school and obtain a degree or professional certification in order to raise her value past the level of cashier. Given the glowing report you speak of I imagine she'd do well.

[Proculation]

QBC QBC:

Proculation Proculation:

Brenda Brenda:

Not everyone is a Mensa member and not all Mensa members have people skills. Yet, that is expected for even a minimum wage job.

There are a lot of technical jobs with really good pay which only require a one or two years course.

One of the kids that played on my lacrosse team last year is a perfect example. He gets out of high school, gets an apprenticeship as a carpenter. He busts his ass working every hour he can get his hands on no matter how far away the job is or how remote the oil patch camp he has to go to. He busts his hump is school to get the theoretical part of the apprenticeship done and done well all the while paying rent and all his own bills. He finishes, gets his journeyman wage, bought a brand new Chevy 3/4 ton and paid it off in two years. He just bought himself a condo with half, that's right, HALF the money down. He's 22 years old. That's the difference between those who want a good life and those who want a good life and are prepared to work to get it.

I also think there's a "historical" thing about getting a good wage without working much, based on the baby boomers generation's situation.

Maybe it's more a Quebec thing but here there's that way of thinking that since our parents got good unionized and easy jobs at the government with a lot of advantages with an high school diploma, we should have the same benefits and more since the society is supposed to "advance".

The high school I went had a lot of facilities to accommodate technical courses since it was an old school (no pun intended again). Mechanical, body shop, carpentry, welding shop, etc. When it was evident to the direction that someone was not performing in the normal classes, he was suggested to get into the professional program to get experience in a technical profession. That school had one of the lowest dropping rate of our public system.

Some people do not fit in a system based on knowledge. They prefer real and manual things. Giving them the opportunity to be in school AND learn concrete working skills is the best way to help them. And it works !

[ShepherdsDog]

$1:

And McDonalds requiring a grade 12 education? WTF?

Unfortunately, they aren't that bright. Saying they have a highschool education doesn't necessarily mean they can even read and write at an acceptable level.

[Proculation]

SprCForr SprCForr:

There's a superficial appeal to cheap stuff. That appeal only lasts until people realize it's actually cheaper in the long run to shell out for quality. An example of this would be the auto industry and it's run in the last 40 years. NA quality morphed into econobox junk and the Asian steeped up, built better and look what happened.

I agree with KD, sending our industry overseas was a mistake. Cheap chinese steel kills the industry here and worse than that, it can suffocate industry research into a better product. Well, I suppose that's what happens when bean counters are in charge.

Yet, it brought prices down, replaced low wage manufacturing jobs to high wage jobs. And we are lacking technical/professionals people with quite good wages for people who do not fit into the knowledge economy.

[BartSimpson]

ShepherdsDog ShepherdsDog:

Unfortunately, they aren't that bright. Saying they have a highschool education doesn't necessarily they can even read and write at an acceptable level.

Indeed. The high school graduates I work with often are unable to make change when buying lunch. But they complain about only making $12 an hour.

Worse, one of the interns I work with had no idea where the Sacramento River is...and my office overlooks the bloody thing.

[Canadian_Mind]

So part of the problem of over-qualification is that people aren't actually getting the equivilent from their education now as they were 20-30 years ago?

Lovely.

[Bruce_the_vii]

Lots of blaming the poor for being poor here. It's hard enough being poor without being blamed for the systems shortfalls.

Also a lot of the low wage earners are Moms that put their life into raising the kids, not getting an Engineering Degree. Retail in Canada is all low wage women. Women will still opt to be Mothers rather than Professionals. I don't have kids myself but I can make out it's pretty hard work having a family, for those of you with a work ethic.

Some people count and some people don't, that's basic philosophy.

[Proculation]

Bruce_the_vii Bruce_the_vii:

Lots of blaming the poor for being poor here. It's hard enough being poor without being blamed for the systems shortfalls.

Also a lot of the low wage earners are Moms that put their life into raising the kids, not getting an Engineering Degree. Retail in Canada is all low wage women. Women will still opt to be Mothers rather than Professionals. I don't have kids myself but I can make out it's pretty hard work having a family, for those of you with a work ethic.

Some people count and some people don't, that's basic philosophy.

I've no problem with the state helping single mothers with tax credit for daycare and help to get back to school to have a better job. That's a thing the state is entitled to IMO. However, being a mother is not a "real job". It's a totally normal situation in our life. If they decide to quit school, make 3 children without a steady partner and then complain about it... I would have to say that it was her choice.