[andyt]

Canadian_Mind Canadian_Mind:

Doesn't really matter Brenda, wages rise with cost of living. It's called inflation, and that is exactly what raising the minimum wage country-wide would cause. Thankfully, the most recent dip put a dent in cost of living both in Alberta and BC, but not really enough to be overly significant.

Don't ask me why housing prices are so high in BC. Right now the place my family lives in is valued over 400 000, when 10 years ago we bought it for 170 000. Don't ask me why it is so high, because people aren't buying. I think it's just a tax grab.

However, Alberta has a reason for high prices. There were more jobs than employees, which produced both higher wages and an influx of people to the province. Thus, housing prices went up, because of demand for places to live and people could afford it. This increase in demand for housing led to more homes being built, which in turn led to a demand of even more jobs. This hasn't slowed down, and until there are homes for everyone and the grocery store doesn't have to pay the stock boy 15 bucks an hour to place fruit, everything is going to cost more there.

Why is it always the minimum wage that causes inflation if raised, but not middle or higher incomes? You're worried about inflation (when every economist still seems to be worrying about deflation) lets raise the minimum wage but start cutting wages from the top, if that's what it takes.

High housing prices in Vancouver/BC have nothing to do with taxes. It's more people trying to get in on what they still think is a rising market, catch the boom. And investments by foreigners, mostly Chinese. Also, Vancouver's housing prices are relatively the highest in the world, not absolutely. Many cities have higher prices, but their median wages are also much higher, so in Vancouver you have people with relatively low wages trying to buy high priced real estate.

[ASLplease]

my advice: dont wait for minimum wage to become benevolent

[Bruce_the_vii]

Grande Prairie, right. Probably the best economy in Canada. What I'm talking about is moving the rest of the country to that level. That's the suggestion. In the last census Grande Prairie had 9% child poverty while the City of Toronto was at 32%. So that's what the issue is.

[Bruce_the_vii]

ASLplease I am suggesting a slightly aggressive minimum wage would be have a list of benefits. When I say this people change the idea to $25 an hour. These are different things.

I slightly aggressive minimum wage, $12.50 in a place like Calgary would inflate a little, not a lot. People are always jockying for position with their wages and you could slip a slight raise at the bottom through the BAnk of Canada's warning system.

A slightly aggressive minimum wage - currently the jobs being created are not average on average and over time this will erode social conditions in Canada. You'll wind up being taxed for that.

[Canadian_Mind]

andyt andyt:

Canadian_Mind Canadian_Mind:

Doesn't really matter Brenda, wages rise with cost of living. It's called inflation, and that is exactly what raising the minimum wage country-wide would cause. Thankfully, the most recent dip put a dent in cost of living both in Alberta and BC, but not really enough to be overly significant.

Don't ask me why housing prices are so high in BC. Right now the place my family lives in is valued over 400 000, when 10 years ago we bought it for 170 000. Don't ask me why it is so high, because people aren't buying. I think it's just a tax grab.

However, Alberta has a reason for high prices. There were more jobs than employees, which produced both higher wages and an influx of people to the province. Thus, housing prices went up, because of demand for places to live and people could afford it. This increase in demand for housing led to more homes being built, which in turn led to a demand of even more jobs. This hasn't slowed down, and until there are homes for everyone and the grocery store doesn't have to pay the stock boy 15 bucks an hour to place fruit, everything is going to cost more there.

Why is it always the minimum wage that causes inflation if raised, but not middle or higher incomes? You're worried about inflation (when every economist still seems to be worrying about deflation) lets raise the minimum wage but start cutting wages from the top, if that's what it takes.

High housing prices in Vancouver/BC have nothing to do with taxes. It's more people trying to get in on what they still think is a rising market, catch the boom. And investments by foreigners, mostly Chinese. Also, Vancouver's housing prices are relatively the highest in the world, not absolutely. Many cities have higher prices, but their median wages are also much higher, so in Vancouver you have people with relatively low wages trying to buy high priced real estate.

I said wages rise with cost of living, not the cost of living rises with wages. Then I went on to explain how, using Alberta as an example.

Further, playing your game, raising minimum wage will significantly contribute to inflation because now you are making the cost to produce the cheapest products on the market higher. This makes these products cost more. As an example, one of these products is food. Say 25% of your daily income goes towards food. Cost of food rises 20% because the employer can't get kids stocking the shelves for less than 12 bucks an hour. Now your food costs you 30% of your income, instead of 25. It's not a huge amount, but for the average family that's an extra 100 to 150 a month. Now, expand that beyond food. What other services provided by minimum wage earners will cost more if minimum wage is increased?



And Bruce, Grande Prairie has the best economy in Canada because it has the most available job positions, not because the kids are making 12.50 an hour minimum. You aren't going to lower the child poverty rate in Toronto, if anything you'll increase it by increasing minimum wage, as companies will either have to shed employees in order to charge the same amount of money for a service, or they will have to increase the costs of the services they provide. So either a lack of jobs gets people, or the increased cost of living will.

And you know why Grande Prairie has the best economy in Canada? Something Toronto doesn't have, Oil.

[andyt]

Canadian_Mind Canadian_Mind:

I said wages rise with cost of living, not the cost of living rises with wages. Then I went on to explain how, using Alberta as an example.

Further, playing your game, raising minimum wage will significantly contribute to inflation because now you are making the cost to produce the cheapest products on the market higher. This makes these products cost more. As an example, one of these products is food. Say 25% of your daily income goes towards food. Cost of food rises 20% because the employer can't get kids stocking the shelves for less than 12 bucks an hour. Now your food costs you 30% of your income, instead of 25. It's not a huge amount, but for the average family that's an extra 100 to 150 a month. Now, expand that beyond food. What other services provided by minimum wage earners will cost more if minimum wage is increased?

You say wages rise with cost of living, yet go on to give an example of cost of living rising with wages. Boy there sure seem to be a lot of kids employed in your area - the people I see working for shit wages in supermarkets, as janitors etc are all adults - probably ones with kids to support. So fine, raising those supermarket wages will raise prices say $100 a month. But in my suggestion we're lowering the wages of the top earners to equalize that - so cost of living will go down there, and it balances out. You seem to feel it's pre-ordained that people work for shit wages to support the rest of us' living standards. Yet at one time supermarkets were unionized, workers there got paid more than I did as a logger, and yet I could go and buy all the food I wanted on my logger's wages without going bankrupt. Wonder how come it worked then but won't work now?

[Brenda]

I am surprised Canada doesn't have something like "youth minimum wage" or something. Say, start working at 15, get paid $5/hr minimum, which goes up till you reach 21, and get paid an "adult minimum wage" (say $11/hr). Pay scales, so to speak...

[andyt]

Brenda Brenda:

I am surprised Canada doesn't have something like "youth minimum wage" or something. Say, start working at 15, get paid $5/hr minimum, which goes up till you reach 21, and get paid an "adult minimum wage" (say $11/hr). Pay scales, so to speak...

As you know, we have something like that in BC. All Liberal candidates for premier have said it's a terrible idea and we should scrap it. Along with raising the minimum wage.

[Canadian_Mind]

andyt andyt:

Canadian_Mind Canadian_Mind:

I said wages rise with cost of living, not the cost of living rises with wages. Then I went on to explain how, using Alberta as an example.

Further, playing your game, raising minimum wage will significantly contribute to inflation because now you are making the cost to produce the cheapest products on the market higher. This makes these products cost more. As an example, one of these products is food. Say 25% of your daily income goes towards food. Cost of food rises 20% because the employer can't get kids stocking the shelves for less than 12 bucks an hour. Now your food costs you 30% of your income, instead of 25. It's not a huge amount, but for the average family that's an extra 100 to 150 a month. Now, expand that beyond food. What other services provided by minimum wage earners will cost more if minimum wage is increased?

You say wages rise with cost of living, yet go on to give an example of cost of living rising with wages. Boy there sure seem to be a lot of kids employed in your area - the people I see working for shit wages in supermarkets, as janitors etc are all adults - probably ones with kids to support. So fine, raising those supermarket wages will raise prices say $100 a month. But in my suggestion we're lowering the wages of the top earners to equalize that - so cost of living will go down there, and it balances out. You seem to feel it's pre-ordained that people work for shit wages to support the rest of us' living standards. Yet at one time supermarkets were unionized, workers there got paid more than I did as a logger, and yet I could go and buy all the food I wanted on my logger's wages without going bankrupt. Wonder how come it worked then but won't work now?

What is lowering the top income bracket going to do to level the playing field? How would it level the playing field? And how do you propose we do it?

You really sound like you're proposing taking the wages from the top earners and giving it to the poor.

And I don't know what towns you are in, but everywhere I have lived, it's been kids (those between the ages of 12 and 18) working the supermarkets, the mcdonalds, the tim hortons, as waitresses, dish-boys, cooks assistants, etc. at restaurants, and pretty much every other service job. Of course there is the occasional old timer in a supervisors position (who I hope would be making a few extra bucks an hour for that), but the vast majority working the minimum-wage service industry are kids, by my experience.

[Brenda]

andyt andyt:

Brenda Brenda:

I am surprised Canada doesn't have something like "youth minimum wage" or something. Say, start working at 15, get paid $5/hr minimum, which goes up till you reach 21, and get paid an "adult minimum wage" (say $11/hr). Pay scales, so to speak...

As you know, we have something like that in BC. All Liberal candidates for premier have said it's a terrible idea and we should scrap it. Along with raising the minimum wage.

You mean the $6/hr for the first job thing? Not at all what I mean...

[andyt]

Brenda Brenda:

andyt andyt:

Brenda Brenda:

I am surprised Canada doesn't have something like "youth minimum wage" or something. Say, start working at 15, get paid $5/hr minimum, which goes up till you reach 21, and get paid an "adult minimum wage" (say $11/hr). Pay scales, so to speak...

As you know, we have something like that in BC. All Liberal candidates for premier have said it's a terrible idea and we should scrap it. Along with raising the minimum wage.

You mean the $6/hr for the first job thing? Not at all what I mean...

If we had a living minimum wage, which if Vancouver is said to be around 17 dollars, I could see it, paying kids a percentage of that - say until 18, which is when many will joint the adult work force. But $5 for anybody that's not living at home is just ridiculous.

[Brenda]

andyt andyt:

Brenda Brenda:

You mean the $6/hr for the first job thing? Not at all what I mean...

If we had a living minimum wage, which if Vancouver is said to be around 17 dollars, I could see it, paying kids a percentage of that - say until 18, which is when many will joint the adult work force. But $5 for anybody that's not living at home is just ridiculous.

It's not meant to be for kids not living at home. It is meant for kids working a part time job while in school (like stocking shelves, sweeping floors, working saturday jobs at Timmies or whatever), living at home.

$6/hr for a new immigrant is ridiculous too. $8/hr for an adult with an education higher than grade 8 is ridiculous. And it still is paid. Even in Vancouver.

[ShepherdsDog]

Anyone that only went to school until grade 8 deserves what they get.

[Canadian_Mind]

Why should a kid who works at home deserve any less than a kid who doesn't?

Frankly, why should a kid bother to take a job wasting 4 hours he/she could put towards other things when he is only going to get 20-25 bucks for it? I never liked the concept of being paid only a 6 hour training wage when I was in highschool, so I went out and found someone who would pay me much more money for what turned into a lot less work per hour than working at the local Tims. Regulating that kids living at home must only be paid X number of dollars is a ridiculous concept.

[Brenda]

Canadian_Mind Canadian_Mind:

Why should a kid who works at home deserve any less than a kid who doesn't?

Frankly, why should a kid bother to take a job wasting 4 hours he/she could put towards other things when he is only going to get 20-25 bucks for it? I never liked the concept of being paid only a 6 hour training wage when I was in highschool, so I went out and found someone who would pay me much more money for what turned into a lot less work per hour than working at the local Tims. Regulating that kids living at home must only be paid X number of dollars is a ridiculous concept.

So you rather have the parents work for that kind of money?
Remember, not everybody has smarts or skills. We need shelf stockers. We need gasbar attendants. But they don't pay more than $8/hr, but they do want you to give your best, and work late at night, sometimes even alone. You do need your foodsafe and your black pants. Waiters, same story. You need to buy your own working clothes and do some courses (even if they are only day courses, they do cost money) and you get paid $8/hr...