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PostPosted: Sun Dec 31, 2023 2:09 pm
 


In 2015, Prime Minister Stephen Harper had worn out his welcome with many Canadians. A lot of people were tired of what they saw as his cold, dictatorial governing style and general mean-spiritedness. He was also weighed down with the baggage of nine years in office, as many people were unhappy with his performance as prime minister. By contrast, Justin Trudeau presented himself as a bright new hope for the future. His positive energy and optimistic talk about “sunny ways” won over a lot of people fed up with Harper, winning him a majority Liberal government in the 2015 federal election.

Now, eight years later, Trudeau is in much the same place as Harper was when he took over. He’s now worn out his welcome with a lot of Canadians who are unhappy with his performance and the baggage he’s accumulated. The federal Liberals’ critics regularly depict them as arrogant, out-of-touch elites who talk down to ‘ordinary’ people, to the benefit of federal Conservative leader Pierre Poilievre.

Now, Poilievre is in the same position Trudeau was back in 2015. He’s portraying himself as the guy who’s going to put the ‘gatekeepers’ in their place, and put an end to what he calls an out-of-touch Liberal elite forcing its policies on unwilling Canadians. Countries ranging from Italy to Argentina have had major backlashes against their incumbent leaders, to the point they’ve replaced their leaders. Canada’s no exception, and if things keep going this way the next election will be Poilievre’s to lose.

There’s a catch, though.

Journalists like Paul Wells have noted how Poilievre’s based a lot of his appeal on tearing down the Trudeau government and being ‘anti-elite’, but he’s been pretty vague about what he’d actually do if he became Prime Minister. When reporters asked him last November how a Conservative government would reduce pollution emissions, he brushed off the question by saying that the Conservatives’ election platform would deal with it.

When he has given a more concrete answer, like what he’d do about the housing crisis, it isn’t necessarily as simple as he claims it to be. Poilievre would force municipalities to build more homes more quickly, and reward them with more funding if they did. The problem is that the Constitution says that municipalities are a provincial jurisdiction. Given how touchy the Alberta government is about federal intrusion into provincial jurisdiction, it’d be an extremely interesting situation for both Poilievre and Danielle Smith.

Right now, time is on Poilievre’s side. Unless Trudeau’s minority government collapses, the next federal election won’t be until 2025. Until then, Poilievre can continue taking shots at Trudeau. The problem, though, is that taking shots at the incumbent government will only get you so far. Before becoming Prime Minister, Harper and Trudeau both clearly described what they said they’d do. Sooner or later, Poilievre is going to have to do the same thing.

So far, his answers don’t inspire a lot of confidence.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 31, 2023 3:14 pm
 


You can't trust people who get homes given to them to do anything about the housing crisis.

Besides, PPs' lack of policy is Trudeaus' fault.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 31, 2023 5:33 pm
 


PP is riding the tide of JT hate. He doesn't need policy when he can just say he will replace JT and that will reason enough for the majority that cast for him. Is that enough to counter the ABC vote? (Anyone But Conservatives) It will be close but he has a shot at a majority depending upon just how badly JT and the NDP play their hand and how much PP overplays his in the next 18 months.

This means no major policies between now and then. No drama, slow and steady and building upon what they already have done. That's will not be the remedy needed for inflation or the housing crisis but it won't give PP the opening he needs to capitalize. The thing is, responsible government, is the very thing the majority of the voting public wants and this minority is making that possible. We could very will end up with yet another liberal minority again.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 31, 2023 6:24 pm
 


My biggest annoyance with politics (any level, anywhere) is when they will trash what the current party in control is doing while offering nothing about what they would do differently if they were the one in power and making the big decisions.

I don't need to hear the criticisms and childish rants and name-calling. Lord knows the media looks after that. Offer me valid reasons as to why I should consider where my vote goes. Do not use statements like "something needs to be done about (fill in the blank)". With all the freaking committees, panels and groups formed for whatever purpose and costing Lord knows how much why are solutions so freaking difficult to come up with?


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 31, 2023 6:33 pm
 


All a platform of policy ideas does is put a target on the backs of the people that present it. It's great if it works and they stick to it but if a crisis happens and they have to change mid policy (IE do a carve out of the carbon tax) they get attacked for it AND they lose support of those that took a gamble on it to begin with. Lose-lose.

You only show your hand when you are IN an election, not before otherwise you are just opening yourself up to easy attacks that pander to low engagement flunkies and if it gets enough traction could cripple or kill and serious policy initiatives. Till then it's a game of poker and you keep your cards close to the vest.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 31, 2023 6:59 pm
 


Scape Scape:
All a platform of policy ideas does is put a target on the backs of the people that present it. It's great if it works and they stick to it but if a crisis happens and they have to change mid policy (IE do a carve out of the carbon tax) they get attacked for it AND they lose support of those that took a gamble on it to begin with. Lose-lose.

You only show your hand when you are IN an election, not before otherwise you are just opening yourself up to easy attacks that pander to low engagement flunkies and if it gets enough traction could cripple or kill and serious policy initiatives. Till then it's a game of poker and you keep your cards close to the vest.


Yeah, but like I said Poilievre can't do this forever. Sooner or later he's going to have to come up with more substantial answers for what he'd actually do in office. The times he's done so don't inspire a lot of confidence in me-remember when he was all in on crypto before about a half dozen currencies rolled over and died?


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 31, 2023 7:12 pm
 


He doesn't need to do anything but keep feeding his base red meat. However, to expand beyond his base and win a majority he does need to win over a few votes from the ABC crowd and NOT look weak to his base. How does he thread that needle? So far he is all about playing fast and loose with the facts and try to corral the low information voters to his cause. The ones that can be hoodwinked by slogans easy like Joe Rogan. If he can get enough of those to shore up his numbers he doesn't have to lay down hard and fast policy that is stress tested. Fear and ignorance are his tools.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2024 9:25 am
 


Scape Scape:
He doesn't need to do anything but keep feeding his base red meat. However, to expand beyond his base and win a majority he does need to win over a few votes from the ABC crowd and NOT look weak to his base. How does he thread that needle? So far he is all about playing fast and loose with the facts and try to corral the low information voters to his cause. The ones that can be hoodwinked by slogans easy like Joe Rogan. If he can get enough of those to shore up his numbers he doesn't have to lay down hard and fast policy that is stress tested. Fear and ignorance are his tools.


I don't think PP is on the cusp of a majority - sure he's got huge support in the Prairies and northern Ontario, but those are conservative strongholds, and winning 70% in rural areas matters little on the electoral front.

His numbers are really low in the GTA and Quebec (he's got no chance in the Lower Mainland either), so unless he can come up with policies that can swing urban voters, his brand of populism (like Trump's) will remain popular only with his right wing voters. I think PP will have even more problems if Trump runs and wins this year's presidential election, because it will swing the pendulum away from his rhetoric.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2024 12:55 pm
 


Trump didn't win the last election that's why he tried to steal it. He has all but alienated the independent vote this time and he is getting taken off the ballot in multiple states for being an insurrectionist. Last time he was elected he had a slim chance and he pulled it off with everything working to his favor. Now, he's going to be in jail before the debates. I doubt he will even be on the ticket.

If PP hitches his wagon to that tree stump he gets what he deserves.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2024 10:32 pm
 


bootlegga bootlegga:

I don't think PP is on the cusp of a majority - sure he's got huge support in the Prairies and northern Ontario, but those are conservative strongholds, and winning 70% in rural areas matters little on the electoral front.

His numbers are really low in the GTA and Quebec (he's got no chance in the Lower Mainland either), so unless he can come up with policies that can swing urban voters, his brand of populism (like Trump's) will remain popular only with his right wing voters. I think PP will have even more problems if Trump runs and wins this year's presidential election, because it will swing the pendulum away from his rhetoric.


Bingo!

Can somebody rep Boots for me? I still haven't spread enough rep points around to be able to do it myself.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2024 11:00 pm
 


That's true, you can't win Alberta any harder as a conservative. The flip side is that the Liberals are divided and the NDP are eating their lunch. Why do you think they did the carve out of the carbon tax for the Maritimes? The libs have zero wiggle room and if the cons manage to scrape out a win they are going to be in the same position and forced into a coalition with the separatists.

It's why no party wants an election because they will all lose what they want most, control. The cons talk a great game but they are preaching to their own choir and are very likely going to be eaten up for believing their own spin.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2024 12:24 pm
 




TLDR: PP is in majority territory and can just play defence for 18 months. The question is, can he?


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2024 10:21 am
 


Scape Scape:
Trump didn't win the last election that's why he tried to steal it. He has all but alienated the independent vote this time and he is getting taken off the ballot in multiple states for being an insurrectionist. Last time he was elected he had a slim chance and he pulled it off with everything working to his favor. Now, he's going to be in jail before the debates. I doubt he will even be on the ticket.

If PP hitches his wagon to that tree stump he gets what he deserves.


I think maybe you misunderstood what meant by Trump affecting PP.

You're correct that Trump might be locked up instead of a candidate in November, but I won't hold my breath that the Supreme Court that he stacked is going to cross him, so my bet is they will overturn Maine and Colorado's rulings to keep him off the ballot.

If Trump wins, his rhetoric and craziness will likely motivate centrists and left wing voters to get out and support Trudeau (despite not liking him at all) to avoid getting our own Trump up here (PP), creating another Liberal minority government.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2024 1:52 pm
 


A Supreme Court that lets the constitution get trampled on their watch won't be a Supreme Court court for long. If they let Trump blatantly break the law they will be cutting off their nose to spite their face as if he then wins he will be a defacto despot with no check on his power and could disband the court.

Rule of law would be outlawed. Think about that. What Putin has going on for the last 20 years is what is in store for the US under Trump. Putin eats his young and the oligarchs know that, Trump will be forced to do the same to maintain power because laws will be unenforceable. It will be mob rule only. Think commerce can flourish under such a sham? Look at how well that is working out for Hong Kong since the British left. The goose that lays the golden eggs will be eaten.

If Trump wins, that's it. Game over. Insoc eat your heart out. Rules and norms are out the window. Even if Trudeau were to win we would just be rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2024 4:23 pm
 


If Trump wins his argument in the Supreme Court, then Biden is president for life. He never has to leave office, because he is immune from all crimes.


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