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PostPosted: Thu Apr 29, 2021 7:42 pm
 


CDN_PATRIOT CDN_PATRIOT:
I am totally in favour of the rich paying a hell of a lot more to taxes because they have
more, and they should pay more. I am also against this 'universal basic income' nonsense
because it doesn't have a purpose, and the ends cannot justify the means.



A sovereign nation owes a responsibility to its citizens. Thus derives a public trust. As long as this country has a SINGLE billionaire I would fully endorse a UBI.

That aspect ALONE would govern the ultra rich. If they want unlimited riches they can have it but they owe a responsibly to uphold the public trust FIRST.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 29, 2021 7:48 pm
 


At this stage in our society's intellectual & ethical disintegration, a corrosion that was caused almost entirely by the neo-liberal economics that benefited the locusts & reavers only, if a billionaire or televangelist is against an idea then by default that idea must be a good thing for almost everyone else. :|

For those dismayed former conservatives who can't believe you're at this point in your life, where you're finding out that you have to literally jettison your entire former belief system just to maintain both your sanity and your self-respect, just remember this. You didn't fail conservatism. What conservatism's turned into has completely failed YOU.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 29, 2021 8:44 pm
 


Thanos, you seem depressed. Here's a few vids to cheer you up:




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PostPosted: Thu Apr 29, 2021 9:53 pm
 


Not depressed. Not today anyway. Just being realistic about a species that's been in thrall to the "great" man/strongman ideal for it's entire existence. It's something we're born with, less of a political thing than it is some kind of quirk or mistake off evolution. The righties with Trump are matched out almost perfectly by the liberals who quite willingly worship a tech dork, as seen in California by the Democrats who quite willingly grind under the middle class and poor in a place like San Francisco and turn the entire city into an enclave that only the new elite can afford to live in. Same shit, same mentality, same entitled two-legged garbage, just in a different location.

My hope is that humanity never inherits the stars. We don't deserve them, at least not while we're still basically nothing but a pack of knuckle-draggers who would just take our mental disease out into the cosmos in order to "become great". It would just be another tragedy, what we've done on and to this planet written on an interplanetary scale, and may whatever gods exist please save anyone out there unfortunate enough to encounter us. An asteroid for Earth, you say? Well, when it happens there isn't much of an argument to be made that it wasn't deserved, and that the "great" all getting knocked off at the same time as their servants/pets/worshippers/victims wouldn't be righteous to finally see. Collectively we're all more than overdue to be knocked off of this putrid pedestal of blood, misery, pollution, and shit we've been building for far too long.

I'd prefer not to think this way. I'm not a sadist or a psycho or anything like that. I'm just someone whose eyes got opened the hard way. Just because I don't like seeing it this way doesn't mean I'm wrong. :|


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 30, 2021 8:35 am
 


PluggyRug PluggyRug:
Image

Until you are Gay, Trans, want an abortion, a woman, a person of colour, say something negative about something conservatives care about.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 30, 2021 9:19 am
 


Thanos Thanos:
Not depressed. Not today anyway. Just being realistic about a species that's been in thrall to the "great" man/strongman ideal for it's entire existence. It's something we're born with, less of a political thing than it is some kind of quirk or mistake off evolution. The righties with Trump are matched out almost perfectly by the liberals who quite willingly worship a tech dork, as seen in California by the Democrats who quite willingly grind under the middle class and poor in a place like San Francisco and turn the entire city into an enclave that only the new elite can afford to live in. Same shit, same mentality, same entitled two-legged garbage, just in a different location.

My hope is that humanity never inherits the stars. We don't deserve them, at least not while we're still basically nothing but a pack of knuckle-draggers who would just take our mental disease out into the cosmos in order to "become great". It would just be another tragedy, what we've done on and to this planet written on an interplanetary scale, and may whatever gods exist please save anyone out there unfortunate enough to encounter us. An asteroid for Earth, you say? Well, when it happens there isn't much of an argument to be made that it wasn't deserved, and that the "great" all getting knocked off at the same time as their servants/pets/worshippers/victims wouldn't be righteous to finally see. Collectively we're all more than overdue to be knocked off of this putrid pedestal of blood, misery, pollution, and shit we've been building for far too long.

I'd prefer not to think this way. I'm not a sadist or a psycho or anything like that. I'm just someone whose eyes got opened the hard way. Just because I don't like seeing it this way doesn't mean I'm wrong. :|


This is pretty much George Carlin's philosophy, and he's considered a comedian. lol. Similar also to Kurt Vonnegut, considered a visionary.

I'm in worse shape than Thanos. I can't even get excited about it anymore. I farm now. I'm a lot more used to death. A bunch of chickens will pick another chicken and just peck it to death. Slowly, mercilessly, pitifully. A pack of dogs will kill a kitten because the cat ran and the dogs' instinct kicked in. And I'm going to eventually slit the the throats of those pigs that I'm lots of loving on right now. And you look at these animals and you understand people better. Funny old world.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 30, 2021 11:43 am
 


If it was mere survival it would be forgivable. See, Darwin was wrong in his moral assessments. Nature isn't cruel, nature simply is. There is no malice in nature, and no greed whatsoever. If harm is caused it is done merely to buy another day's existence. The animals will always have the pure innocence granted to them from their simple instinctive character. An animal cannot be evil or malicious any more than the sun can rise in the west and set in the east. It's impossible just from them not being capable of it.

Mankind though? That's a very different and very rotten story altogether. If humans get to the point where they believe that death is a gift, or the only real right they'll ever have and the only right that ever matters, then they didn't get to that point due to anything nature did to them. They got that way because of what other humans did to them on purpose, for no more reason than greed, just because some "great man" somewhere decided they were going to have much less just so he could have much more. And that great man has a legion without number who will justify every single one of his actions, just so they can feel great themselves by association. Or, more likely, they just really like seeing someone else that they've come to hate get permanently knocked off their feet, or destroyed outright.

And this is the magnificent and God-blessed species that deserves the stars? I think not. :|


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 30, 2021 12:49 pm
 


Thanos Thanos:
The wealthy have too many ratholes (Caymans, Isle of Man, Macau, Emirates, Russia, etc) to flee to with their money for a harsh confiscation of their ill-earned riches to ever succeed. It's only a dream, albeit a very good one, to think that them getting their just dues for their endless crimes against all of humanity will ever happen in anyone's lifetime.


That argument to me (and I'm not saying you necessarily support it) is a red herring.

If the tax free status in Cayman Islands or Isle of Man, etc. was as important as anti-tax crusaders argue, they'd have populations in the 10s of millions and have massive economies, Instead, they are tiny enclaves with a relative handful of the wealthy.

The reason is because the markets the wealthy get rich off of are in North America, Europe and Asia, not small tax free enclaves.

If the wealthy suddenly decided to decamp en masse for lox tax havens (which they haven't ever done), the way around that is simple - tax their investments and businesses in the markets where they make their profits.

Then they are left with the decision to either they close up shop and leave it to someone else, or pay corporate taxes. Anyone who has amassed a billion dollar fortune will quickly realize that 40% of $100 million is better than 100% of nothing.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 30, 2021 1:07 pm
 


I support such sort of taxation in theory. I just regard the battle for it as the equivalent of a mouse vs an elephant. The fuckers are just too big and strong to ever defeat, therefore they will always win by default. Going up against a battle tank with a cap gun in hand pretty much always ends up badly for the guy whose weaponry, no matter how inherently righteous his cause may be, consists solely of a half-assed dime store toy.

The world can never be brought to that state of unanimous agreement anyway. There'll always be some other crook & schemer out there controlling a county, one who can be bought off quite easily, and surprisingly cheaply too. It's a mistake to believe that the bosses aren't working in concert across the entire planet. They did learn from both the French and Russian revolutions to always have a safe place to go to, with others of their demographic more than willing to take them in, in the off-chance that their servants and catamites get overwhelmed by the mob back home. I doubt we'll ever see the guillotine blades falling on them en masse ever again, which is a true pity.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 30, 2021 2:46 pm
 


Scape Scape:
A sovereign nation owes a responsibility to its citizens. Thus derives a public trust. As long as this country has a SINGLE billionaire I would fully endorse a UBI.


What I don't understand is WHY you'd support an UBI, and anyone else for that matter.

Everything I have seen and heard on the matter (from many sources of information across
the spectrum, before anyone comments!) would suggest that people would 1) blow their UBI on ridiculous shit, 2) make those same people too dependent on it, and 3) end up costing us
huge in the long run.

I don't want my tax dollars paying for nonsense like that! An increased minimum wage is one
thing, and might work IF DONE PROPERLY. The UBI seems like a train wreck of an idea before
it even goes anywhere, and seeing as how the current Liberal government mentioned it as
something they might consider, just gives me more inclination to how much of a disaster
it would be if implemented.

The whole point of working and living is to constantly improve yourself so that you can
make your way up the ladder of success, and with that comes greater reward. Handing out a basic income negates all of that, and breeds complacency. There are NO upsides.

-J.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 30, 2021 4:26 pm
 


CDN_PATRIOT CDN_PATRIOT:

What I don't understand is WHY you'd support an UBI, and anyone else for that matter.


Because the vast majority of UBI recipients will use the benefit for survival and to catch up on the things like utility bills that are killing them. Should those who clearly need such a thing be denied simply because some irresponsible asshole elsewhere will spend it foolishly? It's the identically fatuous argument the far-left idiots make when they say because some monster kills someone with a gun that no one else should be allowed to have one.

And don't be such a scold on other people's choices. If a person who spends their UBI on a non-essential item then it's up to them to do so. And them doing that still benefits the economy in further taxes generated plus that what they buy helps the place they're buying it all to stay in business and to keep their workers employed. That's a hell of a lot more important that being all pseudo-righteous just because a few thousand out of millions of recipients will cash it and spend it on street drugs. The needs of the many outweigh the badness of what a handful of truly broken & messed-up people will use that money for.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 30, 2021 4:42 pm
 


So, the government wants to give people an UBI just to tax the shit out of it? That makes even less sense than anything else, and people will still grow dependent on it in the long run.

I don't want handouts, period. I might not be the richest man in the world, and sometimes I downright struggle. But, it's the struggle that develops character and gives people a purpose. There will be no purpose if an UBI comes into existence.

-J.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 30, 2021 4:43 pm
 


CDN_PATRIOT CDN_PATRIOT:
Scape Scape:
A sovereign nation owes a responsibility to its citizens. Thus derives a public trust. As long as this country has a SINGLE billionaire I would fully endorse a UBI.


What I don't understand is WHY you'd support an UBI, and anyone else for that matter.

Everything I have seen and heard on the matter (from many sources of information across
the spectrum, before anyone comments!) would suggest that people would 1) blow their UBI on ridiculous shit, 2) make those same people too dependent on it, and 3) end up costing us
huge in the long run.

I don't want my tax dollars paying for nonsense like that! An increased minimum wage is one
thing, and might work IF DONE PROPERLY. The UBI seems like a train wreck of an idea before
it even goes anywhere, and seeing as how the current Liberal government mentioned it as
something they might consider, just gives me more inclination to how much of a disaster
it would be if implemented.

The whole point of working and living is to constantly improve yourself so that you can
make your way up the ladder of success, and with that comes greater reward. Handing out a basic income negates all of that, and breeds complacency. There are NO upsides.

-J.


I guess you don't remember when the Liberals derided giving people money for "popcorn and beer".

It's none of your business what anyone spends their money on, whether it's from their job, a tax cut, or a federal program.

At least that's the way conservatives USED to think about liberty and freedom, I guess that was the old conservatives - now you're just like the Liberals in thinking that you know better than I do what I should spend my money on.

Newsflash - neither of you know what's best for me and my family.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 30, 2021 4:53 pm
 


CDN_PATRIOT CDN_PATRIOT:
So, the government wants to give people an UBI just to tax the shit out of it? That makes even less sense than anything else, and people will still grow dependent on it in the long run.

I don't want handouts, period. I might not be the richest man in the world, and sometimes I downright struggle. But, it's the struggle that develops character and gives people a purpose. There will be no purpose if an UBI comes into existence.

-J.


Not everyone else is like you. I'd need a UBI simply because I'm too old to start another career that would take me to a salary level like my old dead one had. It's over for me. I can assure you right now that even if I bought a case of beer from a $300 per month UBI the other $270 would be used for rent & utilities & to keep the aging vehicle running. That's it. It wouldn't be wasted on trifles or amusements. I literally don't care what someone else spends their own UBI on because I'd use my UBI just to keep my head above water.

If I want to see one thing die out in my lifetime it would be the death of this DIY mentality that's afflicted our countries for far too long, especially in North America. A fraction of one percent of us will ever "do it on our own" and achieve total financial independence. The rest of us will need the governments to kick in so we don't fall even farther down the ladder. It's not about success anymore, it's about basic survival. And we can't keep basing entire national policies based on the example of a tiny minority of (so-called) success stories, not when more and more of us are getting the shit kicked out of us every year just from inflation, ever-increasing fees, getting nothing but short-term & low-paid gig jobs, and a host of other money-drainers.

The come-uppance is arriving far sooner instead of later. This society that's allowed so many losers to be born just so the small handful of winners can take everything is going to have it's judgement day. It simply can't continue on like this, not unless you want to ensure that one hell of an ugly and completely pitiless revolution really will happen that will level the playing field in the harshest manner imaginable.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 30, 2021 4:58 pm
 


UBI will be beneficial considering automation will lead downsizing of a lot of jobs, and if the pandemic has shown anything those who are the least paid are the most important to the economy.


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