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CKA Uber
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2020 9:38 pm
 


Title: Guaranteed basic income tops policy priorities for Liberal caucus at upcoming convention
Category: Political
Posted By: Freakinoldguy
Date: 2020-09-17 21:33:34
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2020 9:38 pm
 


So here's the question. If a basic income for six months comes to 98 billion dollars what the fuck would a basic income for life come to for everyone who can't or won't work?


$1:
Providing almost all Canadians with a basic income for six months beginning this fall could cost about $98 billion, the parliamentary budget officer said in a report on the eve of a preview of how COVID-19 will shape government spending until next spring.

The figure is the upper range of the scenarios the budget watchdog was asked to research as part of a report released Tuesday morning as policy-makers consider how to shape emergency supports set to expire in the fall.


https://globalnews.ca/news/7147306/coro ... nada-cost/

But not to worry, I'm sure our PM has figured out where the money for this windfall is going to come from.

My guess is that he'll just print more cause that's apparently where money comes from in Canada now. XD

$1:
From his front stoop, Prime Minister Justin Trudeau has been announcing bags of money every morning at 11 a.m.

And it might have crossed your mind — where’s all that money coming from?

The answer’s simple enough — the government is issuing bonds, then printing money to buy most of them from itself.

Not even in the 2008 financial crisis did we try that.

Your next question would probably sound something like — why can’t I do that?


“You can’t,” answers Greg Tkacz, an economist at St. Francis Xavier University who previously worked at the Bank of Canada.

You, like Premier Stephen McNeil, do not have a central bank at your disposal.

“(The provincial government) doesn’t have the luxury of an unlimited ability to print money,” said Tkacz.

“Any debt has to be paid back through higher taxes or reduced spending later on.”


https://www.thechronicleherald.ca/news/ ... arsely-api


Last edited by Freakinoldguy on Thu Sep 17, 2020 9:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2020 9:45 pm
 


Google it.

While you are at it ask how much our current social services cost and what they cover. Disability, 1st nation coverage, mental health for starters. Oh, and for each province.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2020 9:56 pm
 


All welfare and support needs to be centralized under the feds. Not doing it on a provincial level would save the provinces a lot of money. Job losses in the civil service would be minimal to non-existent if the provinces maintain the distribution of the funds while the feds take over the approvals and funding. At a minimum it strips away the ability of the provinces to use as an ideological cudgel to beat up on the poor in order to placate the "let them all starve" psychopaths on the right-wing fringe.

Needs to be done, ASAP, and not just because of COVID. If anything it's something that should have been done ages ago. Think of how many poor wouldn't have had shortened lives due to something like homelessness if a single federal department provided equal coverage across the entire country. Duplication of services can be quite literally murderous, especially when there's politicians out there who are more than willing to exploit the "bloodsuckers and parasites" mentality that exists among far too many Canadians.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2020 10:01 pm
 


Read the rest of my post and explain to me how printing money can continue to pay for largess of this gov't because right now we're paying for all those other social services via taxes which, won't be enough to pay for Little Lord Fauntleroy's excesses while buying votes and turning Canada into another Greece.

I'd also just like to remind you of this post from 2017 because given circumstances I was pretty close to the mark.

0:
FireShot Capture 026 - Immigration qualification based on 'excessive demand' must c - CKA Fo_ - www.canadaka.net.png
FireShot Capture 026 - Immigration qualification based on 'excessive demand' must c - CKA Fo_ - www.canadaka.net.png [ 53.38 KiB | Viewed 109 times ]


And as for removing other programs, well you know that's not going to happen so this will likely be an added on program which will run the bill up even more.

$1:
76 billion dollars. That’s what it would cost to implement basic income in Canada according to a new report released by the Parliamentary Budget Office (PBO).

The report comes just days after Ontario began testing its own basic income pilot study in Hamilton, Brantford, Brant County, Lindsay and Thunder Bay. As part of the study, 4000 Ontarians will receive unconditional cash transfers of up to $2500 per month for the next three years. The new report estimates how much it would cost to roll out the program nationwide.

Importantly, the policy under consideration would not be an universal basic income, and would only be available to low-income individuals between the ages of 18 and 64. Roughly 1 in 5 Canadians (7.5 million people) would qualify for benefits. The plan would guarantee a minimum annual income of $16,989 for singles, and $24,027 for couples (those with a disability could receive an additional $500 per month).


https://basicincome.org/news/2018/05/ca ... -per-year/

But lets forget about cost and just ask how the fuck does Trudeau plan on paying for this?Especially since we can't export our natural resources, have lost most of our manufacturing sector to foreign countries and are being overwhelmed by debt because of the UN and China's duplicity?


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2020 10:21 pm
 


The reason why a UBI is even being considered at this point is the economy. If it stalls out (and if we do nothing under a covid lockdown it will) the economy will crash and we will be in even more dire straits.

UBI is not a solution here, it's more of a last ditch effort to prevent the economy from stalling.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2020 10:36 pm
 


Do you not realize UBI is still taxed?


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2020 10:45 pm
 


Scape Scape:
The reason why a UBI is even being considered at this point is the economy. If it stalls out (and if we do nothing under a covid lockdown it will) the economy will crash and we will be in even more dire straits.

UBI is not a solution here, it's more of a last ditch effort to prevent the economy from stalling.


That still doesn't explain how they intend to pay for it especially since only around 1 in 5 Canadians will qualify. A fact which means there will still be a need for most if not all the other social services.

And if you want to see the result of unbridled social spending in the hope of saving an economy we have no farther to look than Greece.

https://www.cnbc.com/2015/07/01/greek-d ... alism.html

I'm sorry but the damage has been done to our economy by the pandemic and trying to right the ship by flooding more compartments isn't going to work. It never has and never will because when it comes to finances the smoke an mirrors approach where you just print money to cover your costs invariably leads to inflation and then hyper inflation.

So if you haven't already purchased your wheel barrow to hold you wallet when you go shopping now might be a good time to think about that because I can see our economy going south in a hurry.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2020 10:47 pm
 


llama66 llama66:
Do you not realize UBI is still taxed?


How can something that hasn't been implemented yet be taxed? And isn't taxing gov't spending just another smoke and mirror method of making it more palatable to the general population since that's where the money for these programs comes from in the first place through taxes?


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2020 10:54 pm
 


We won't turn into Greece, ever. Greece was a one-off, with it's own unique pathologies of being a perennially poor country combined with them getting hammered by an EU monetary policy that turned out to be utterly devastating for them.

Canada though, if some kind of total reform of the welfare system doesn't happen soon, could turn into something worse if we keep following the pattern set by the US where only the concerns of the wealthy and fortunate are taken seriously. Think something like the Dirty Thirties returning. Or something as apocalyptically terrible as the living conditions for the underclass in Victorian/Dickensian England of the 19th century. That's how bad it can get if the throw-away attitude towards the poor and unlucky continues. The proponents of fiscal conservatism, if there really is such a thing, have to step forward and finally be honest of what they think is best for the economy and the state, and that is to shut off all help for the unfortunate altogether, basically hack them off of the body politic/economic like a gangrenous limb, and concentrate all resources only on those who've already "made it".

Until then don't predict any doom about what might happen if the system is rebuilt to include some kind of UBI. The people at the bottom are already stuck in an end-of-the-world situation of their own, one that's perpetual for them, a daily nightmare that never goes away. They aren't going to be interested at all in hearing the complaints from those who have always been safe and stable in their own existence.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2020 11:01 pm
 


Not to mention that the value of the dollar will collapse if we allow the economy to crash. Then we will not have any money anyway.

We need to shore up the economy 1st and even doing this we have one or two years max that we can do this before it will crash anyway. It's like living on the credit card eventually the bill will come due but for right now we still have an obligation to keep the lights on to give us time to turn this around.

Doing NOTHING simply isn't an option.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2020 11:03 pm
 


And, BTW, the Canadian rich got $37 billion richer since COVID began:

https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/the-r ... 40845.html

In the US the gains by the most-wealthy are upwards of $1 trillion, including uncounted hundreds of billions handed out to them by the Trump Regime without any sort of oversight or accountability of where the money went to.

Must everyone always lose all the time, while the likes of these who have never even had a single bad day in their entire lives, continuously win all the time? :?


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 18, 2020 6:48 am
 


Freakinoldguy Freakinoldguy:
llama66 llama66:
Do you not realize UBI is still taxed?


How can something that hasn't been implemented yet be taxed? And isn't taxing gov't spending just another smoke and mirror method of making it more palatable to the general population since that's where the money for these programs comes from in the first place through taxes?

No, the money goes out, sure; but it's taxed. The UBI isn't just trucks that drive down the street blowing hundreds out of them.

UBI would be indexed to your income and taxed like every other form of income. This would just be of benefit if you were to lose your job or fall on hard times.

The Government wouldn't consider this unless they had an angle to make some money from.

Besides, UBI would save money as (everyone else pointed out) it would replace a bunch of programs, like welfare and probably UI it's self.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 18, 2020 8:36 am
 


Freakinoldguy Freakinoldguy:
So here's the question. If a basic income for six months comes to 98 billion dollars what the fuck would a basic income for life come to for everyone who can't or won't work?



Most plans call for UBI is taxable income (like CERB/EI/CPP/OAS are), so if you already earn $100,000 and get another $12,000, most of it, if not all, is going back to the government in taxes.

At the same time, it would replace welfare, EI, children's benefits, and all those otehr boutique programs the government doles out each month, so when you close up all those other programs and just issue one check, instead of dozens.

If you want an excellent explanation of UBI, watch Andrew Yang:



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PostPosted: Fri Sep 18, 2020 10:55 am
 


Good God, don't let your own obstinance become 100% of your reasoning. Endlessly worrying about who to exclude is why I'm thankful Andrew Sneer wasn't PM when Covid hit. They'd still be making lists of who NOT to send money to and none would've gone out at all.
Those people who can't or won't work already get $800 - $1100 a month through multiple agencies with multiple staffs in 10 different provinces and 3 territories. Plus billions in grants and donations to run non-profit support agencies to fill in gaps.
Far easier to run a federal UBI and claw back through a revised income tax.


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