[Newsbot]

Title: Racial hate alive in Canada, summit told
Category: Misc CDN
Posted By: Curtman
Date: 2012-03-26 06:25:00
Canadian

[Goober_McGee]

How can you expect any different when actual Canadians have their history and culture swept aside in favour of revisionist history, the history of other peoples and multiculturalism? It used to be that you came here and integrated but now it's more accommodation while the silent majority are forced to forget about their past less they be ostracised and branded a racist. Pro-white protests are really just an outcry for a greater acceptance of Canadian culture and traditions, albeit in an extreme fashion given that white Canadian youth (these are the ones protesting, on both sides of the racist/anti-racist divide) don�t know how to express themselves (again, without being marginalised or shrugged off) and thus will gravitate to the extremes of the political spectrum (though really fascism and national socialism are centrist ideologies in theory and practice, and obviously the extremists on the anti-racist side are much more left leaning).

Nationalism has been on the rise in Canada, which is a good thing. However I used to think that it would end in violence unless there was some outlet, the Olympics for example, but I think now that said outlet may have just prolonged the inevitable. Maybe something will happen (race riots perhaps in the most extreme case), and unless issues of immigration, and how immigrants integrate into our society are addressed (for example ghettos and ethnic enclaves and the fact that very few learn English or French even after 20 years of being here) there probably will be more protests/demonstrations and eventually violence. Further, things such as culture and history need to be addressed as well in regards to their lacking roles in broader modern Canadian society. In my opinion, if we all knew how our country came to be, where our traditions came from, great people in our history and their motivations, or even our own folk songs and traditional music, we might not be so willing to abandon it all. Instead we�re only taught the absolute basics of history in our schools and most of the time even that is just glossed over. Maybe it�s just a sign of the times and being Canadian just means you happen to live in an okay country instead of actually belonging to a people with history and culture of their own.

It's a bit of a rant, I know...

[BartSimpson]

You might like this...

international-politics-f2/britain-launches-war-on-multiculturalism-t100334.html

[jeff744]

Goober_McGee Goober_McGee:

How can you expect any different when actual Canadians have their history and culture swept aside in favour of revisionist history, the history of other peoples and multiculturalism? It used to be that you came here and integrated but now it's more accommodation while the silent majority are forced to forget about their past less they be ostracised and branded a racist. Pro-white protests are really just an outcry for a greater acceptance of Canadian culture and traditions, albeit in an extreme fashion given that white Canadian youth (these are the ones protesting, on both sides of the racist/anti-racist divide) don�t know how to express themselves (again, without being marginalised or shrugged off) and thus will gravitate to the extremes of the political spectrum (though really fascism and national socialism are centrist ideologies in theory and practice, and obviously the extremists on the anti-racist side are much more left leaning).

Nationalism has been on the rise in Canada, which is a good thing. However I used to think that it would end in violence unless there was some outlet, the Olympics for example, but I think now that said outlet may have just prolonged the inevitable. Maybe something will happen (race riots perhaps in the most extreme case), and unless issues of immigration, and how immigrants integrate into our society are addressed (for example ghettos and ethnic enclaves and the fact that very few learn English or French even after 20 years of being here) there probably will be more protests/demonstrations and eventually violence. Further, things such as culture and history need to be addressed as well in regards to their lacking roles in broader modern Canadian society. In my opinion, if we all knew how our country came to be, where our traditions came from, great people in our history and their motivations, or even our own folk songs and traditional music, we might not be so willing to abandon it all. Instead we�re only taught the absolute basics of history in our schools and most of the time even that is just glossed over. Maybe it�s just a sign of the times and being Canadian just means you happen to live in an okay country instead of actually belonging to a people with history and culture of their own.

It's a bit of a rant, I know...

Define Canadian culture in a way that encompasses all the regions of Canada.

[Goober_McGee]

In all honesty, the "regions" of Canada aren't that different. All have a shared values as a base, all have a mixture of British and French culture (that is law, language, traditional music styles, folk tales that were brought over, etc); not to mention that on either side of the language divide, French and English speakers have 250 years of shared history in just Quebec/Ontario alone (that's even if you consider there to be a huge difference between French and English Canada besides the language, which in reality there isn't; just language).

[jeff744]

Goober_McGee Goober_McGee:

In all honesty, the "regions" of Canada aren't that different. All have a shared values as a base, all have a mixture of British and French culture (that is law, language, traditional music styles, folk tales that were brought over, etc); not to mention that on either side of the language divide, French and English speakers have 250 years of shared history in just Quebec/Ontario alone (that's even if you consider there to be a huge difference between French and English Canada besides the language, which in reality there isn't; just language).

How do you include the eastern European base of the prairies or the heavily Asian BC? The Inuit in the North? The extremely different aboriginal groups in BC? The Cree? The Iroquois? The Maritimes?

[BartSimpson]

jeff744 jeff744:

Define Canadian culture in a way that encompasses all the regions of Canada.

To me it is an intangible thing that defies explanation but that is also immediately recognizable when you see its effects.

My first serious trip to Canada was in 1994 and when I crossed the border from Blaine to White Rock what I immediately noticed was:

1) How clean it was. The highways and streets were not strewn with trash. Homes and yards were attended to. Cars were in generally good repair. And there was a remarkable absence of grafitti.

2) The dearth of signs warning people of the fine incumbent in tossing trash from one's car. It was not needed because Canadians simply didn't do this kind of thing.

3) A very civilized congeniality that borders on an almost tropical passiveness. Canadians and people from tropical nations get on quite well (IMHO) because your collective personalities run on similar wavelengths. The difference being that Canadians are not inherently lazy.

4) A sort of indifferent and dismissive attitude towards individual Americans. Kind of how a family treats their rich retarded 25 year old cousin. You're nice to them, of course, but you don't take much of what they say too seriously. And if they're not in the room you feel pretty comfortable getting in a laugh at their expense. But you take care not to tweak him too much because as much as you dismiss him, you're rather fond of his money. And he's got guns. Lots of 'em.

5) As much as you like to dish on Americans you get far more out of dishing on each other. But, again, it's carried out in that civilized manner that allows you to smile while saying the most insulting things yet somehow not provoking a fist fight.

6) You cry at even the worst renditions of 'O Canada', you take more pride in your beer than you do in your military, and while most of you are loathe to promote violence you all have a barbaric streak that manages to impress Americans when your team loses (or wins) the Stanley Cup.

And there's more, of course.

But the bottom line is that while you folks may have issues with defining what it is to be 'Canadian' everyone else in the world knows what it is the moment we see it.

The smart ones like it and to hell with those who don't.

[Curtman]

$1:

While Muslims and Jews gathered in Winnipeg on the weekend to unite against hate, neo-Nazis and skinheads in other Canadian cities rallied in the streets to promote it.

Public demonstrations in London, Ont., and Edmonton show hate exists in Canada, a hate-crime researcher told 100 Muslims and Jews in Winnipeg Sunday.
...
Getting to know other people and their religions is key to preventing history from repeating itself, said Rabbi Or Rose, who grew up in Winnipeg and sat next to the imam at Sunday's event.

This really is the key. Our country was built by immigrants. Multiculturalism is its natural state, not like others who have had it forced upon them. When you take the time to get to know people, you learn that everyone just wants to raise a family and be safe. Racism is ignorance.

$1:

In the 40-plus years since multiculturalism policy was introduced in Canada, the Criminal Code has been amended to make it a criminal offence to disseminate hate propaganda. In the early 1990s, it changed again with enhanced sentences for crimes driven by hate. It may soon be amended again, said University of Winnipeg Prof. Helmut-Harry Loewen, but not the way the hate crime researcher would like.

"I'm concerned that under the current government, there's an attempt to roll back the gains made in the Criminal Code and human rights laws," Loewen said.

This concerns me as well. They're rolling back an awful lot of things these days whether they make sense or not. Usually not.

[PluggyRug]

Curtman Curtman:

This concerns me as well.

Of course it does.

[Goober_McGee]

jeff744 jeff744:

Goober_McGee Goober_McGee:

In all honesty, the "regions" of Canada aren't that different. All have a shared values as a base, all have a mixture of British and French culture (that is law, language, traditional music styles, folk tales that were brought over, etc); not to mention that on either side of the language divide, French and English speakers have 250 years of shared history in just Quebec/Ontario alone (that's even if you consider there to be a huge difference between French and English Canada besides the language, which in reality there isn't; just language).

How do you include the eastern European base of the prairies or the heavily Asian BC? The Inuit in the North? The extremely different aboriginal groups in BC? The Cree? The Iroquois? The Maritimes?

As far as the Eastern European population of Canada goes, when they emigrated they were all from the Western parts of Slavic Europe, that is to say Poland and Galicia (Ukraine) most were predominately Catholic, and their traditions (perogies and painting Easter eggs for example) have become part of Canadian tradition. Given that they also are from a Western background they integrated well and are just as Canadian as anyone Brit/Franco Canadian. I mean if you really want to argue the genetic makeup of Canadians (I mean actual Canadians, as in those who have been here from the start) it's predominately British(which includes Irish)/French mix with parts of Scandinavia, Western, Central and East-Central Europe. We're really a mix of all old world Europe. You'll also note I said that British/French culture was the base, meaning our culture was founded upon that.

Now if you want to get into Asian BC, that's a relatively new thing within the last 30-40 years, and really picking up when the UK gave Hong Kong to the PRC and when Chretien and friends started doing trade missions to China. If you want to talk about Asian railroad builders, I don't believe there were many, most died and a lot went back to China. The same can be said of Japanese immigrants in the early 1900's; they came over, had a few kids, and after WWII many went back to Japan, including some who were born here. Asian impact on what is traditionally Canadian culture is negligible really, other than the fact that modern Asian immigrants don't learn the languages or know the history.

As far as aboriginals go, yes during our early history they had a large role in forming our nation, many practices were adopted (Indian fighting, style of dress when out in the bush, canoeing, etc), and they were vital to the fur trade that really made 18th century Canada what it was. However as Canada started to industrialize and aboriginals remained on their reserves, they didn't progress with the rest of us and therefore really didn't contribute to the development of Canadian culture past the 19th century. As for the effect individual tribes had on wider Canadian culture, such things too are negligible given that, as stated before, they remained on their reserves so long that it never really impacted Canada as a whole.

[Unsound]

$1:

Public demonstrations in London, Ont., and Edmonton show hate exists in Canada, a hate-crime researcher told 100 Muslims and Jews in Winnipeg Sunday.

I love how they don't mention that the demonstration in Edmonton atleast invlovled at most a dozen people I think. They were heavily outnumbered by the anti-racism protesters who chased them into a subway about 5 minutes after they started their rally.

$1:

In the 40-plus years since multiculturalism policy was introduced in Canada, the Criminal Code has been amended to make it a criminal offence to disseminate hate propaganda. In the early 1990s, it changed again with enhanced sentences for crimes driven by hate. It may soon be amended again, said University of Winnipeg Prof. Helmut-Harry Loewen, but not the way the hate crime researcher would like.

I really disagree with the bolded. If someone beats up a jew because he's a jew, or beats me because I have an iPod, does it really matter? Either way someone got beat, and the punishment shuold reflect what happened.

[Thanos]

1) Racism is stupid, but preferring one's own culture over that of othres is not racism.

2) Most Canadians don't see other cultures as a threat, because most other cultures aren't anything to worry about. But we're under no obligation at all to respect certain other cultures that include such lovely primeval features like forced marriages, clitorectomies for teenage girls, honour killings, or flying airliners into office towers. The trash that do believe in such things should get the fuck out of Canada and go back to the moral wasteland that they were puked out of in the first place.

[jeff744]

Goober_McGee Goober_McGee:

jeff744 jeff744:

Goober_McGee Goober_McGee:

In all honesty, the "regions" of Canada aren't that different. All have a shared values as a base, all have a mixture of British and French culture (that is law, language, traditional music styles, folk tales that were brought over, etc); not to mention that on either side of the language divide, French and English speakers have 250 years of shared history in just Quebec/Ontario alone (that's even if you consider there to be a huge difference between French and English Canada besides the language, which in reality there isn't; just language).

How do you include the eastern European base of the prairies or the heavily Asian BC? The Inuit in the North? The extremely different aboriginal groups in BC? The Cree? The Iroquois? The Maritimes?

As far as the Eastern European population of Canada goes, when they emigrated they were all from the Western parts of Slavic Europe, that is to say Poland and Galicia (Ukraine) most were predominately Catholic, and their traditions (perogies and painting Easter eggs for example) have become part of Canadian tradition. Given that they also are from a Western background they integrated well and are just as Canadian as anyone Brit/Franco Canadian. I mean if you really want to argue the genetic makeup of Canadians (I mean actual Canadians, as in those who have been here from the start) it's predominately British(which includes Irish)/French mix with parts of Scandinavia, Western, Central and East-Central Europe. We're really a mix of all old world Europe. You'll also note I said that British/French culture was the base, meaning our culture was founded upon that.

Now if you want to get into Asian BC, that's a relatively new thing within the last 30-40 years, and really picking up when the UK gave Hong Kong to the PRC and when Chretien and friends started doing trade missions to China. If you want to talk about Asian railroad builders, I don't believe there were many, most died and a lot went back to China. The same can be said of Japanese immigrants in the early 1900's; they came over, had a few kids, and after WWII many went back to Japan, including some who were born here. Asian impact on what is traditionally Canadian culture is negligible really, other than the fact that modern Asian immigrants don't learn the languages or know the history.

As far as aboriginals go, yes during our early history they had a large role in forming our nation, many practices were adopted (Indian fighting, style of dress when out in the bush, canoeing, etc), and they were vital to the fur trade that really made 18th century Canada what it was. However as Canada started to industrialize and aboriginals remained on their reserves, they didn't progress with the rest of us and therefore really didn't contribute to the development of Canadian culture past the 19th century. As for the effect individual tribes had on wider Canadian culture, such things too are negligible given that, as stated before, they remained on their reserves so long that it never really impacted Canada as a whole.

You must be from Ontario. The west has a lot of native culture built in, and it is gaining ground. Canadian culture hasn't stopped changing yet and there are differences between regions as well. Canada is a lot more diverse than you seem to think, we have similarities but we also have differences. Calling us an Anglo/French country is ignorant, from the start we have been created from a mixture of three cultures. We had a period where it was dominantly Anglo/French but the native today have made a huge comeback and it is becoming increasingly popular to engage in traditional native activities. The treaties are still shaping what Canada's policies with the aboriginals are. Immigrants are flowing into Canada and bringing parts of their culture with them, half the towns in my province only have South African doctors, we just brought in a large number of Filipino nurses, and have festivals to celebrate our diversity.

Canada doesn't have just one culture that encompasses everyone, there is a reason we are described as a multicultural country.

[sandorski]

Curtman Curtman:

$1:

While Muslims and Jews gathered in Winnipeg on the weekend to unite against hate, neo-Nazis and skinheads in other Canadian cities rallied in the streets to promote it.

Public demonstrations in London, Ont., and Edmonton show hate exists in Canada, a hate-crime researcher told 100 Muslims and Jews in Winnipeg Sunday.
...
Getting to know other people and their religions is key to preventing history from repeating itself, said Rabbi Or Rose, who grew up in Winnipeg and sat next to the imam at Sunday's event.

This really is the key. Our country was built by immigrants. Multiculturalism is its natural state, not like others who have had it forced upon them. When you take the time to get to know people, you learn that everyone just wants to raise a family and be safe. Racism is ignorance.

$1:

In the 40-plus years since multiculturalism policy was introduced in Canada, the Criminal Code has been amended to make it a criminal offence to disseminate hate propaganda. In the early 1990s, it changed again with enhanced sentences for crimes driven by hate. It may soon be amended again, said University of Winnipeg Prof. Helmut-Harry Loewen, but not the way the hate crime researcher would like.

"I'm concerned that under the current government, there's an attempt to roll back the gains made in the Criminal Code and human rights laws," Loewen said.

This concerns me as well. They're rolling back an awful lot of things these days whether they make sense or not. Usually not.

This.

About the only thing I agree with the OP on, is that we need better History coverage in Schools. The rest of the rant misses the mark from being moot to ridiculous.

[Macguyver]

Those white supremest clowns are no different then a big chunk of you anonymous CKA rabble who hide behind your computer and say the same thing as them. Racial hate is alive and well, all you have to do is pull up any topic on CKA dealing with Natives or immigrants or Iraq or Afghanistan.

EXAMPLE: for example ghettos and ethnic enclaves and the fact that very few learn English or French even after 20 years of being here...

Who here has visited one of these ethnic enclaves where "very few" of the people speak English? I've been there and ya there are people, mostly elderly, who are not fluent in English or French...but those people are exceptions, rather than the rule. Goober probably does not know it takes between 4 and 10 years to learn English as a second language fluently.

So why is the honorable and just Mr. Goober McGee making such a libelous claim? Because telling the truth saying that 4% of immigrants, mostly elderly, do not learn English over the course of 20 years in our country really creates no debate at all. In fact, it actually makes the case for more immigration when you add to that fact they tend to be hard workers, willing to work any sort of job and are generally good employees.

For those of you that care, take a gander at this http://integration-net.ca/coa-oce/engli ... ulture.pdf

It gives some insight into what immigrants go through when they come to a new country. Add to that your thoughtlessness and ignorance and you probably can guess why many of them would rather just keep to their own kind.

Multiculturalism is not failing you, you are failing it.