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PostPosted: Thu May 22, 2014 7:01 pm
 


Title: Senior military commander killed in training accident on Alberta base
Category: Military
Posted By: DrCaleb
Date: 2014-05-22 06:40:31
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PostPosted: Thu May 22, 2014 7:01 pm
 


Those LAV3s are really top heavy by the sounds of it. There is a kid in our shop ... Afghanistan veteran tank driver who said that he went for the Leopards instead because of the topsy turvey LAVs, Time for re-design.

Condolences to his family. You wouldn't expect someone as senior as a Lieutenant Colonel getting killed in such a manner in a peacetime accident.


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PostPosted: Sat May 24, 2014 10:29 am
 


The design is fine, if you want top heavy look at the Nyala Image. The incident was just a horrible accident, and throwing money at the problem isnt going to fix anything.


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PostPosted: Sat May 24, 2014 11:55 am
 


Shouldn't these light armoured vehicles be capable of going just about anywhere?


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PostPosted: Sat May 24, 2014 12:00 pm
 


As the article says, they were in the midst of upgrading them, so Guy's comment may not be accurate.

Go anywhere, like drive across a 45 deg slope? Every vehicle has limits.


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PostPosted: Sat May 24, 2014 12:30 pm
 


andyt andyt:
As the article says, they were in the midst of upgrading them, so Guy's comment may not be accurate.

Go anywhere, like drive across a 45 deg slope? Every vehicle has limits.


It's been awhile but a 45 degree slope is a little beyond it's capabilities, but you would be surprised at what it can do. The biggest problem we had with them was not so much the vehicle but driver inexperience. I don't think that was the problem here because I can't see the commanding officer of a unit having an inexperienced driver.


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PostPosted: Sat May 24, 2014 2:53 pm
 


The upgrades are minor things, side bins, larger holders for jerry cans ect. They wont be changing the chassis at all nor will they be changing the vehicle so it can take a 50 degree slope.

Again the problem with the incident is that it was an accident.


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PostPosted: Sat May 24, 2014 2:55 pm
 


$1:
As the vehicles returned from the war, National Defence embarked on an ambitious program to improve the protection, electronics and stability of the vehicle, including the powertrain and suspension. It’s not clear whether Bobbitt’s vehicle had been upgraded.
So this report is wrong?


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PostPosted: Sat May 24, 2014 2:56 pm
 


Guy_Fawkes Guy_Fawkes:
The upgrades are minor things, side bins, larger holders for jerry cans ect. They wont be changing the chassis at all nor will they be changing the vehicle so it can take a 50 degree slope.

Again the problem with the incident is that it was an accident.



I hope that they are increasing the armour plating in the hull. The crews seem to be so vulnerable ...


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PostPosted: Sun May 25, 2014 10:39 am
 


andyt andyt:
$1:
As the vehicles returned from the war, National Defence embarked on an ambitious program to improve the protection, electronics and stability of the vehicle, including the powertrain and suspension. It’s not clear whether Bobbitt’s vehicle had been upgraded.
So this report is wrong?

I haven not seen any upgrades to electronics or stability and there is rumor of possible changes to the power train. However these improvements were promised before the military had massive cut backs.

Edit:
Here is a link to the upgrades http://www.gdlscanada.com/index.php/pro ... lav/lav-up

http://www.casr.ca/bg-army-armour-lav-upgrade.htm

The upgrades do focus on surviving mines/IEDs and a more powerful powertrain. Since they also say the cheque has already been cut, I guess these changes are all bound to happen sooner or later. Still they are not going to address situations on when the vehicle can roll because of difficult terrain; roll overs are still rare accidents.


Last edited by Guy_Fawkes on Sun May 25, 2014 10:55 am, edited 3 times in total.

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PostPosted: Sun May 25, 2014 10:42 am
 


Jabberwalker Jabberwalker:
Guy_Fawkes Guy_Fawkes:
The upgrades are minor things, side bins, larger holders for jerry cans ect. They wont be changing the chassis at all nor will they be changing the vehicle so it can take a 50 degree slope.

Again the problem with the incident is that it was an accident.



I hope that they are increasing the armour plating in the hull. The crews seem to be so vulnerable ...

Increasing the armor platting will not stop accidents like this. If you take an egg and place it in tin can, and then throw it on the ground, it will break the same as if you had placed it in tupperwear and threw it.


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PostPosted: Sun May 25, 2014 2:20 pm
 


Jabberwalker Jabberwalker:
Shouldn't these light armoured vehicles be capable of going just about anywhere?


$1:
The LAV III, as it’s known in the army, has been involved in more than a dozen rollovers since it was introduced in 1999, including several accidents in Afghanistan that resulted in at least five fatalities.


Everything has it's limits....


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PostPosted: Sun May 25, 2014 2:59 pm
 


Guy_Fawkes Guy_Fawkes:
Jabberwalker Jabberwalker:
Guy_Fawkes Guy_Fawkes:
The upgrades are minor things, side bins, larger holders for jerry cans ect. They wont be changing the chassis at all nor will they be changing the vehicle so it can take a 50 degree slope.

Again the problem with the incident is that it was an accident.



I hope that they are increasing the armour plating in the hull. The crews seem to be so vulnerable ...

Increasing the armor platting will not stop accidents like this. If you take an egg and place it in tin can, and then throw it on the ground, it will break the same as if you had placed it in tupperwear and threw it.



I didn't think for as second that more armour plating in the hull would prevent accidents like this one. What more armour plating in the hull will do is allow more of their crew to walk with their own limbs after having large mines exploded under them. Now that it is widely known how to defeat a LAV and maim its crew, the tactic of daisy-chaining a series of mines together to blow the hull in will be used against them wherever they are deployed next. The cat is out of the bag, so to speak. The system should be upgraded.


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PostPosted: Sun May 25, 2014 7:08 pm
 


The LAV IIIs are very tippy, and they tend to sink into the ground much faster due to their narrow tall wheels than the very similar LAV 25. It's a real shame the someone was killed.

The German Puma would make a very good replacement for the LAV IIIs given what commanders want them to do, and how they are operated.

Their is no real good way to armour a wheeled vehicle to give any meaningful protection to 25mm or larger autocannons, protect the crew and passengers from mine or IED strikes, and keep good off road stability.

The only thing you can do is train the drivers and crew commanders to pick better ground.


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PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2014 8:36 am
 


Jabberwalker Jabberwalker:
I didn't think for as second that more armour plating in the hull would prevent accidents like this one. What more armour plating in the hull will do is allow more of their crew to walk with their own limbs after having large mines exploded under them. Now that it is widely known how to defeat a LAV and maim its crew, the tactic of daisy-chaining a series of mines together to blow the hull in will be used against them wherever they are deployed next. The cat is out of the bag, so to speak. The system should be upgraded.


Ok, I was a little lost when you brought up armor plating in this thread.

Regardless that's why they are now going to be given V shaped hulls. Also any vehicle can be defeated if you put enough bang under it, the problem [the bombers have] is making the IED large enough, in the right place and detonating it at the right time. Also I think you mean stacking, not daisy chaining, the mines.


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