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PostPosted: Tue Dec 07, 2021 6:52 am
 


Title: US vows to boost military presence if Russia attacks Ukraine
Category: Military
Posted By: Scape
Date: 2021-12-06 23:20:32


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 07, 2021 6:52 am
 


So, basically they will wag their finger at Russia, and Ukraine is on their own again. :(


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 07, 2021 8:57 am
 


DrCaleb DrCaleb:
So, basically they will wag their finger at Russia, and Ukraine is on their own again. :(

Are you ready to suit up and go fight for the Ukraine?


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 07, 2021 9:39 am
 


rickc rickc:
DrCaleb DrCaleb:
So, basically they will wag their finger at Russia, and Ukraine is on their own again. :(

Are you ready to suit up and go fight for the Ukraine?


What would that prove? That Canada Forces has a very low standard for entry? Or is it your usual trick of throwing shade on my opinion by inferring I'm something you think is bad?

The US are self proclaimed 'World Police'. They should act like it.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 07, 2021 10:10 am
 


DrCaleb DrCaleb:
rickc rickc:
DrCaleb DrCaleb:
So, basically they will wag their finger at Russia, and Ukraine is on their own again. :(

Are you ready to suit up and go fight for the Ukraine?


What would that prove? That Canada Forces has a very low standard for entry? Or is it your usual trick of throwing shade on my opinion by inferring I'm something you think is bad?

The US are self proclaimed 'World Police'. They should act like it.

I didn't mean you personally. Are you ready for your country to go to war in the Ukraine? I think not. The U.S. is NOT the world police, never has been. Hundreds of wars have been waged since WW2 that the U.S. has not gotten involved in. We have to have a personal interest in the matter, or an alliance on paper to get involved. We have neither with the Ukraine. We trained daily for almost 50 years to go to war against the Ukraine, now they are supposed to be our best buds? I don't think so. We have very little trade with the Ukraine. I can't recall ever seeing any product of any kind from the Ukraine for sale in the U.S.....EVER!!! I do not personally know anyone that has ever visited the Ukraine. I know that I have never had any desire to go there. Never met anyone from the Ukraine. The U.S.does not have large pockets of immigrants from the Ukraine. We don't have a close historical relationship. We have almost zero trade. We have zero strategic value in the Ukraine. Its not like the Ukraine is going to stop purchasing our automobiles and our auto plants are going to go belly up. I sure as hell don't want my fellow citizens dying for a country that was our enemy just a few years back. I have no problem selling them whatever arms they need, but thats it. No troops.

If you think that the Ukraine is worth fighting and dying for, than get on the horn to blackface boy. Tell him how you feel. I don't think that it will do any good though. Canada's days of sending troops abroad are in the rear view mirror.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 07, 2021 10:14 am
 


But "boosting military presence" has to be some kind of threat, or at least a deterrent... so are they posing, or are they serious.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 07, 2021 10:17 am
 


raydan raydan:
But "boosting military presence" has to be some kind of threat, or at least a deterrent... so are they posing, or are they serious.

Posing 100%


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 07, 2021 10:19 am
 


rickc rickc:
raydan raydan:
But "boosting military presence" has to be some kind of threat, or at least a deterrent... so are they posing, or are they serious.

Posing 100%

That's exactly what DrCaleb said. :wink:


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 07, 2021 10:39 am
 


rickc rickc:
DrCaleb DrCaleb:
rickc rickc:
Are you ready to suit up and go fight for the Ukraine?


What would that prove? That Canada Forces has a very low standard for entry? Or is it your usual trick of throwing shade on my opinion by inferring I'm something you think is bad?

The US are self proclaimed 'World Police'. They should act like it.

I didn't mean you personally. Are you ready for your country to go to war in the Ukraine? I think not.


You'd be wrong.

rickc rickc:
The U.S. is NOT the world police, never has been. Hundreds of wars have been waged since WW2 that the U.S. has not gotten involved in. We have to have a personal interest in the matter, or an alliance on paper to get involved.


Is the United States Done Being the World’s Cop?

Why would the US get involved in conflicts it has no interest in? [huh] It doesn't really count to say there have been hundreds of conflicts that the US didn't participate in, because they had no interest in. But you do have alliances and interests in Ukraine. The US has fought wars in places all around Ukraine, like Bosnia, Iraq and Syria.

How else is the US going to keep Hunter Bidens emails secret unless they invade Ukraine? ;)

rickc rickc:
We have neither with the Ukraine. We trained daily for almost 50 years to go to war against the Ukraine, now they are supposed to be our best buds? I don't think so. We have very little trade with the Ukraine. I can't recall ever seeing any product of any kind from the Ukraine for sale in the U.S.....EVER!!! I do not personally know anyone that has ever visited the Ukraine. I know that I have never had any desire to go there. Never met anyone from the Ukraine. The U.S.does not have large pockets of immigrants from the Ukraine. We don't have a close historical relationship. We have almost zero trade. We have zero strategic value in the Ukraine. Its not like the Ukraine is going to stop purchasing our automobiles and our auto plants are going to go belly up. I sure as hell don't want my fellow citizens dying for a country that was our enemy just a few years back. I have no problem selling them whatever arms they need, but thats it. No troops.


No, the US trained to fight against the Soviet Union. Ukraine was occupied by the Soviets, same as Yugoslavia and others were. But as soon as the Soviet Union fell, they declared themselves independent again.

But Russia once again threatens that independence.

And you seem to have no sense of your history. After the Holomodor, there was a huge exodus of people from the Ukraine to the US and Canada. If you know anyone from Ohio or most of the midwest, you probably know a Ukrainian. Anywhere there is farmland, you will find a Ukranian.

$1:
The impact is clear: Though Syria, Afghanistan, South Sudan, Myanmar and Somalia drive more than two-thirds of the international refu­gee crisis, now numbering more than 26 million according to the United Nations, Ukrainians in 2019 outnumbered Syrian refu­gee arrivals in the United States 8 to 1. They outnumbered Afghans nearly 4 to 1, Sudanese 12 to 1 and Somalis 19 to 1.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/immigrat ... story.html

The small farming town I grew up in, it was normal to hear Ukrainian, German, Polish and Romanian in the coffee shops.

rickc rickc:
If you think that the Ukraine is worth fighting and dying for, than get on the horn to blackface boy. Tell him how you feel. I don't think that it will do any good though. Canada's days of sending troops abroad are in the rear view mirror.


Operation UNIFIER

$1:
Canada’s response to the crisis in Ukraine

Photo credit: CANADEM

Following the Revolution of Dignity in early 2014, Ukraine’s government committed to implementing democratic and economic reforms in line with its European aspirations. Russian aggression, which started in 2014 with the illegal invasion and occupation of Crimea, has drawn Ukraine into a bloody conflict in the east of the country. This conflict has placed significant pressure on the Ukrainian government’s ability to carry out its reforms.

Since the beginning of the crisis, we have led international support for the people of Ukraine. We supported Ukraine in its initial fight for democracy and reform. We continue to support Ukrainian sovereignty and territorial integrity in the face of Russia’s illegal occupation of Crimea and its support for insurgents in eastern Ukraine. In coordination with partners and allies, we have imposed sanctions against hundreds of Russian and Ukrainian individuals and entities.

. . .

Military Cooperation

In September 2015, we launched Operation UNIFIER, the Canadian Armed Forces (CAF) military training and capacity-building mission in Ukraine. Currently, we deploy approximately 200 CAF personnel to Ukraine under Operation UNIFIER, which has been extended until March 31, 2022. The CAF have trained more than 12,500 members of Ukraine’s Security Forces since the mission began. We also contribute a senior representative to Ukraine’s Defence Reform Advisory Board. This representative provides strategic advice on defence reform to Ukraine’s Minister of Defence and senior officials.

In addition to contributions through Operation UNIFIER, the CAF cooperates with the Security Forces of Ukraine through the Military Training and Cooperation Program (MTCP). Ukraine is the single largest recipient of training and funding under the MTCP. More than 2,500 military personnel have received training through the MTCP since 1993.

Since January 2019, Canada and the United Kingdom share the role of NATO Contact Point Embassy (CPE) in Kyiv. CPEs support NATO’s partnership and public diplomacy activities in partner countries. Canada also supports the NATO-Ukraine Joint Working Group on Defence Reform through the delivery of language training, staff officer training and peacekeeping training for Ukrainian military and civilian personnel.


https://www.international.gc.ca/world-m ... x?lang=eng


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 07, 2021 10:40 am
 


raydan raydan:
rickc rickc:
raydan raydan:
But "boosting military presence" has to be some kind of threat, or at least a deterrent... so are they posing, or are they serious.

Posing 100%

That's exactly what DrCaleb said. :wink:

I fully understand what he said. The whole world knows that Ivan can invade the Ukraine whenever he damn well pleases. No one is going to intervene. Absolutely no one. The U.S. has to make some noise that there might be repercussions if there is an invasion so we don't have to hear that the invasion was our fault because we did not expressly speak out against it. That was what was said about Iraq invading Kuwait. Iraq was rattling swords before the invasion. The U.S. did not have a lot to say about it. Some people took that a a green light for the invasion to happen.

If we do not speak out against an invasion, we are seen as green lighting the invasion. If we speak out against an invasion we are seen as promising military aid (including troops) if the invasion does happen. Damned if we do, and damned if we don't. Saying that we are "boosting military presence" shuts down the people that would claim that we approved of the invasion. Saying that we are "boosting military presence" is clear as mud. It does not promise any combat troops whatsoever. We could send 10 people to Poland and it would satisfy boosting military presence. Its all political doublespeak bullshit. Its covering your ass plain and simple. That is all it is going to do, cover some politician's ass. Ivan will move whenever he is ready. Ivan knows it, we know it too.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 07, 2021 10:51 am
 


Can't see the US running to Europe's help on this one. NATO has been struggling for a long time. My guess is that a lot of those European countries are going to realize belatedly what decades of slashing defence expenditures has created. Canada can relate--our military is a joke.

Putin is slowly putting the Soviet Union back together again. Ukraine almost, but never quite, made it out of their orbit. If Putin invades the Europeans will shit themselves and the US will apply sanctions, but that won't deter Putin. I wonder if Poland will end up being the flashpoint once again.

The US will sit this one out, I think. Maybe they'll even sit out Taiwan. Hard to say.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 07, 2021 11:09 am
 


DrCaleb DrCaleb:
So, basically they will wag their finger at Russia, and Ukraine is on their own again. :(


I wish the West would step up and help Ukraine in a substantial manner, but it's highly unlikely, just like Ukraine's bid to join NATO.

https://www.defensenews.com/congress/20 ... oltenberg/


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 07, 2021 11:14 am
 


bootlegga bootlegga:
DrCaleb DrCaleb:
So, basically they will wag their finger at Russia, and Ukraine is on their own again. :(


I wish the West would step up and help Ukraine in a substantial manner, but it's highly unlikely, just like Ukraine's bid to join NATO.

https://www.defensenews.com/congress/20 ... oltenberg/


I think they delayed the NATO membership without cause. If they had pushed it through, it probably would have made Putin think harder. Now they use the excuse that they are fighting a war as the reason to not accept Ukraine. Like it's their fault? :evil:

Putin does not have a veto on NATO membership.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 07, 2021 11:22 am
 


Zipperfish Zipperfish:
Can't see the US running to Europe's help on this one. NATO has been struggling for a long time. My guess is that a lot of those European countries are going to realize belatedly what decades of slashing defence expenditures has created. Canada can relate--our military is a joke.

Putin is slowly putting the Soviet Union back together again. Ukraine almost, but never quite, made it out of their orbit. If Putin invades the Europeans will shit themselves and the US will apply sanctions, but that won't deter Putin. I wonder if Poland will end up being the flashpoint once again.

The US will sit this one out, I think. Maybe they'll even sit out Taiwan. Hard to say.


Poland is already planning to double the size of its armed forces because of recent Russian and Belarusian provocations, so odds are it and the Baltic states will become the front lines in the next few years.

As for Taiwan, I think the US will come to their aid, because it will give China complete hegemony over the South China Sea, which could in turn cripple Japan and South Korea in the future. Also if the US doesn't support Taiwan in the event of an invasion, nobody outside North America will ever trust the US as an ally for decades, if ever.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 07, 2021 11:46 am
 


DrCaleb DrCaleb:

Operation UNIFIER

$1:
Canada’s response to the crisis in Ukraine

Photo credit: CANADEM

Following the Revolution of Dignity in early 2014, Ukraine’s government committed to implementing democratic and economic reforms in line with its European aspirations. Russian aggression, which started in 2014 with the illegal invasion and occupation of Crimea, has drawn Ukraine into a bloody conflict in the east of the country. This conflict has placed significant pressure on the Ukrainian government’s ability to carry out its reforms.

Since the beginning of the crisis, we have led international support for the people of Ukraine. We supported Ukraine in its initial fight for democracy and reform. We continue to support Ukrainian sovereignty and territorial integrity in the face of Russia’s illegal occupation of Crimea and its support for insurgents in eastern Ukraine. In coordination with partners and allies, we have imposed sanctions against hundreds of Russian and Ukrainian individuals and entities.

. . .

Military Cooperation

In September 2015, we launched Operation UNIFIER, the Canadian Armed Forces (CAF) military training and capacity-building mission in Ukraine. Currently, we deploy approximately 200 CAF personnel to Ukraine under Operation UNIFIER, which has been extended until March 31, 2022. The CAF have trained more than 12,500 members of Ukraine’s Security Forces since the mission began. We also contribute a senior representative to Ukraine’s Defence Reform Advisory Board. This representative provides strategic advice on defence reform to Ukraine’s Minister of Defence and senior officials.

In addition to contributions through Operation UNIFIER, the CAF cooperates with the Security Forces of Ukraine through the Military Training and Cooperation Program (MTCP). Ukraine is the single largest recipient of training and funding under the MTCP. More than 2,500 military personnel have received training through the MTCP since 1993.

Since January 2019, Canada and the United Kingdom share the role of NATO Contact Point Embassy (CPE) in Kyiv. CPEs support NATO’s partnership and public diplomacy activities in partner countries. Canada also supports the NATO-Ukraine Joint Working Group on Defence Reform through the delivery of language training, staff officer training and peacekeeping training for Ukrainian military and civilian personnel.


https://www.international.gc.ca/world-m ... x?lang=eng

Its my friday. I am too tired to break it down by paragraph, just a few thoughts: you brought up the wars that the U.S. fought in Bosnia, Iraq, and Syria. Those are perfect examples of the U.S. getting involved in wars that they have no business being in. People had been fighting and dying in what used to be Yugoslavia for years. No one in the U.S. gave a shit until the President got caught up in a scandal where he was getting blow jobs from an intern that was his daughters age. Then magically all this ethnic cleansing was suddenly a big deal. If that scandal never happened, there would have never been any U.S. troops in the Balkans. If ever there was an actual case of "wag the dog" that was it.

Americans were pissed off about 9/11. President Bush parlayed that anger to solve a personal score with Saddam Hussein. We fell for it hook, line, and sinker. I fell for it. The U.S. invasion of Iraq was EASILY the biggest clusterfuck of the 21st century so far. Its early yet. Lets hope it remains the biggest. We destroyed one of the most modern Arab countries. We created power vacuums that still have not been filled. We created militant Islamic states that did not exist. We destabilized an ENTIRE region. The shockwaves are still being felt today. All of this to sooth one mans ego. I seriously do not think that there has ever been a bigger misuse of Presidential power in the history of the U.S. than the invasion of Iraq.

Syria? We have ZERO business being in Syria. A President recklessly paints some "red lines" on a map in Syria and then we are supposed to "do something" when these lines get crossed? I call bullshit. There are NO good guys in Syria. Just another case of where someone who was my enemy is now supposed to be my ally just because they are killing someone else that I don't like. When I went to Turkey in the early 80's in the military, I was required to attend a mandatory meeting before leaving the airport. Part of that meeting was about the Kurdish terrorist threat. The Kurds were setting off bombs killing innocent Turks. Thousands of Turkish civilians have been killed by the Kurds over the years. The Turks were our allies. The Kurds were our enemy. Now just because the Kurds are killing some members of ISIS, we are supposed to be allies? Bullshit!!! We have ZERO interests in Syria.

You state that the U.S. has alliances in the Ukraine. What are they? Who are they with? The Ukraine is not a member of Nato.

You are telling me that Canada currently has 200 troops in the Ukraine?


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