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PostPosted: Wed Jun 09, 2021 4:20 pm
 


Scape Scape:
Zipperfish Zipperfish:
I imagine they leaned toward "no it's natural" because they didn't want a massive killing spree of Asians in the US. I mean, they're beating and killing Asians anyway, for sport, but imagine if the gummint had said "Yeah it was the Chinese." Slaughter. The US is really kill or be killed these days. So, yeah, Fauci's busted but I wouldn't be surprised if that was the reason.



Fair point. Still think it is man made unless we can show it binds to something OTHER than us better. Nature doesn't work the other way around.


Yes it does. We swap viruses between ourselves and every animal we farm or turn to pets. Bird flu? Swine Flu? Ring bells?

Image

$1:
The first US case of an animal testing positive for COVID-19 was a tiger at a New York zoo.


https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-nc ... imals.html


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 09, 2021 4:21 pm
 


Caelon Caelon:
The legal 'experts' are suggesting asking for proof of vaccination would not be legal due to the privacy laws. It is a grey area. Medical records are private and you cannot be asked to disclose your medical information without just cause. The examples given are restaurants. If they allowed people in during the pandemic previously without vaccines they cannot now say it is now mandatory.


R=UP


-J.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 09, 2021 4:32 pm
 


DrCaleb DrCaleb:
Yes it does. We swap viruses between ourselves and every animal we farm or turn to pets. Bird flu? Swine Flu? Ring bells?

Image

$1:
The first US case of an animal testing positive for COVID-19 was a tiger at a New York zoo.


https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-nc ... imals.html



It's called BIRD flu and SWINE flu for a reason. It is predominate in BIRDS and SWINE NOT HUMANS. They can pass it on because there is a link but it was something that is inherent in their species not ours. That is the problem here. Show where Covid is in nature? They said it was either bats or pangolins. If so SHOW the WORK. EG patient zero. This hasn't been done and we do not see this in nature. That is the elephant in the room here.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 09, 2021 4:59 pm
 


Scape Scape:
DrCaleb DrCaleb:
Yes it does. We swap viruses between ourselves and every animal we farm or turn to pets. Bird flu? Swine Flu? Ring bells?

Image

$1:
The first US case of an animal testing positive for COVID-19 was a tiger at a New York zoo.


https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-nc ... imals.html



It's called BIRD flu and SWINE flu for a reason. It is predominate in BIRDS and SWINE NOT HUMANS. They can pass it on because there is a link but it was something that is inherent in their species not ours. That is the problem here. Show where Covid is in nature? They said it was either bats or pangolins. If so SHOW the WORK. EG patient zero. This hasn't been done and we do not see this in nature. That is the elephant in the room here.


Every time a virus destroys a cell in order to reproduce itself, it causes a mutation somewhere in the RNA. Most of the time, these mutations do nothing. But every once in a while, it give the virus an advantage over the other copies, and that improves it's survivability, or tranmissability, or rate of growth. And *bam* we have a variant.

When a virus spreads from an animal to a human, that is because of one of these mutations gives it the ability to affect our cells. Where the virus was first detected is the name of the variant. Ie: It came from Birds, or Swine. That is the reason it is called BIRD flu or SWINE flu, just like MERS was first found in Camels. It was first found in one animal, mutated, and infected people. That mutation also means it can't turn around easily and re-infect the animal with the new variant.

Now, since the mutation was likely from multiple sources, from a live animal market (none of whom likely survive now), tell us how one is to 'show the work'? I've already posted several article that explain this in depth, but it is likely that we will never know 'patient zero'.

The Pangolin theory was dropped early, as I have written many times, the RNA sequence shows it came from bats. RNA doesn't lie.

$1:
When the first genome sequence of SARS-CoV-2, Wuhan-Hu-1, was released on 10 January 2020 (GMT) on Virological.org by a consortium led by Zhang6, it enabled immediate analyses of its ancestry. Across a large region of the virus genome, corresponding approximately to ORF1b, it did not cluster with any of the known bat coronaviruses indicating that recombination probably played a role in the evolutionary history of these viruses5,7. Subsequently a bat sarbecovirus—RaTG13, sampled from a Rhinolophus affinis horseshoe bat in 2013 in Yunnan Province—was reported that clusters with SARS-CoV-2 in almost all genomic regions with approximately 96% genome sequence identity2. Zhou et al.2 concluded from the genetic proximity of SARS-CoV-2 to RaTG13 that a bat origin for the current COVID-19 outbreak is probable. Concurrent evidence also proposed pangolins as a potential intermediate species for SARS-CoV-2 emergence and suggested them as a potential reservoir species11,12,13.


https://www.nature.com/articles/s41564-020-0771-4

Now, I assume you get 'showing the work' and 'this doesn't occur in Nature' and 'this doesn't bind to humans' from that guy who seems to be always wrong. Protip: These are called 'Red Herrings'. They are impossible things that don't actually prove anything if they can't be disproven.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 09, 2021 7:07 pm
 


The wet market theory is full of holes not the least of which was not only was the types of animals this was a suspected to originate from not found or known to be sold there.

The variant came into our species with not only one but 2 very specific factors that made it uniquely suited to infect humans and no other species. How do you explain that? Random chance of that happening is inexplicable and no historical precedent to date. Not even SARS was this advanced from the get go.

Show you work means exactly that, show where this came from. Showing a tiger that got it after Wuhan is only showing the trajectory of the pathogen after the fact. We need to see the origin and that is much more likely it is a result of weak lab containment protocols and a manufactured mutation was the reason this got loose and not some random bat in a wet market.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 09, 2021 7:31 pm
 


Scape Scape:
The wet market theory is full of holes not the least of which was not only was the types of animals this was a suspected to originate from not found or known to be sold there.



in the winter when most bats hibernate.

There are thousands of wet markets all over south Asia, weird coincidence the virus came from the place that has a virology lab.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 09, 2021 9:38 pm
 


PluggyRug PluggyRug:
Scape Scape:
The wet market theory is full of holes not the least of which was not only was the types of animals this was a suspected to originate from not found or known to be sold there.



in the winter when most bats hibernate.

There are thousands of wet markets all over south Asia, weird coincidence the virus came from the place that has a virology lab.


And if the next pandemic were to originate in Atlanta, home of the CDC, would that be evidence of conspiracy too? Or just coincidence?


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 10, 2021 6:45 am
 


Scape Scape:
The wet market theory is full of holes not the least of which was not only was the types of animals this was a suspected to originate from not found or known to be sold there.


Except, I posted a study showing that the genome of SARS-COV-2 could only have come from bats. 97% of the genome is from known bat virus. RNA doesn't lie. The animal doesn't have to be sold there for it's feces to infect other animals. (Red Herring)

http://www.idph.state.il.us/public/hb/hbb&bdrp.htm
http://www.emro.who.int/egy/egypt-infoc ... d-flu.html

Scape Scape:
The variant came into our species with not only one but 2 very specific factors that made it uniquely suited to infect humans and no other species. How do you explain that? Random chance of that happening is inexplicable and no historical precedent to date. Not even SARS was this advanced from the get go.


I don't have to explain red herrings, but I will. If SARS-COV-2 only infects humans, then explain that CDC page I linked to showing the first known non-human infected with it was a tiger. And the other animals on that page, like dogs. How can Seals get bird flu from human?

And what is 'advanced' with respect to SARS? What does 'advanced' mean? How do you know that this has never happened before? (another Red Herring) That's the thing about random chance; it means anything is possible and discounting something because 'random chance' is not logical.

SARS had an Achilles heel that SARS-COV-2 did not have - people infected with SARS became symptomatic immediately. People with COVID-19 can be asymptomatic through their entire infection. This does not imply unnatural selection, it simply is the result of random mutation, just like the seasonal flu is a crap shoot as to how infectious and how fatal it is.

Scape Scape:
Show you work means exactly that, show where this came from.


Red herring. We don't know where the common cold came from. That doesn't change anything. We track literally thousands of viruses that are animal based every year that never become human transmissible. It doesn't change that they exist.

Scape Scape:
Showing a tiger that got it after Wuhan is only showing the trajectory of the pathogen after the fact.


That other animals can be infected by it was in response to your assertion that infections vectors were bird and swine only. That is not true if it affects felines.

Scape Scape:
We need to see the origin and that is much more likely it is a result of weak lab containment protocols and a manufactured mutation was the reason this got loose and not some random bat in a wet market.


Coincidence is not causality. Again, absent proof, the vector we see for disease transmission in literally thousands of other cases is more likely - a wet market. The least likely explanation - escaped from a lab - has only happened twice, and not since strict protocols have been implemented. Which is the more likely? Occam's Razor, and all that.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 10, 2021 7:23 am
 


xerxes xerxes:
PluggyRug PluggyRug:
Scape Scape:
The wet market theory is full of holes not the least of which was not only was the types of animals this was a suspected to originate from not found or known to be sold there.



in the winter when most bats hibernate.

There are thousands of wet markets all over south Asia, weird coincidence the virus came from the place that has a virology lab.


And if the next pandemic were to originate in Atlanta, home of the CDC, would that be evidence of conspiracy too? Or just coincidence?


and if anyone was talking about conspiracies would that just be a coincidence?


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 10, 2021 9:21 am
 


Tricks Tricks:
It's people with some level of credential trying to oppose everything for views and it misinforms people. It's gross. The guy is no better than dr Phil or dr oz.


R=UP


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 10, 2021 9:33 am
 


rickc rickc:
So Americans are beating and killing Asians for sport eh? Thats funny because this report states that your old stomping ground of Vancouver is the anti-Asian hate crime capital of North America. There were more anti-Asian hate crimes reported in Vancouver last year than in the top 10 most populated U.S. cities combined!!! Almost 1 of every 2 Asian residents of British Columbia experienced a hate incident last year.

Looks like you need to get off of your high horse and start cleaning up your own back yard. You know the one that is full of dead First Nation kids. Yeah that back yard.

https://www.bloomberg.com/features/2021 ... te-crimes/


I'm not here to say Canada is better. I'm saying the US is riven with hate right now, everywhere. Skyrocketing gun violence and mass shootings, mobs at the capital, ongoing rioting in several US cities, and, yes, brutal attacks on Asians. I'm not saying it out of any smug pride, especially living near Kamloops. I was born in Pittsburgh, I lived in San Diego, I served with Americans, and I love the USA. But from my point of view it's getting unhinged.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 10, 2021 11:28 am
 


PluggyRug PluggyRug:
Scape Scape:
The wet market theory is full of holes not the least of which was not only was the types of animals this was a suspected to originate from not found or known to be sold there.



in the winter when most bats hibernate.


Bat species that hibernate are usually found in higher latitudes (like Canada) when their food sources (usually insects) disappear due to colder weather...and I think it goes without saying that winter in SE Asia isn't like winter in Canada.


PluggyRug PluggyRug:
There are thousands of wet markets all over south Asia, weird coincidence the virus came from the place that has a virology lab.


The key is more likely due to the former (wet markets), and not the latter (virology lab).

The problem with wet markets is that they allow all manner of animals to intermingle and potentially pass diseases to each other. As we saw last year (and DrC has noted), humans have passed COVID-19 onto other species during the pandemic, so why is there any doubt that other species can pass along their diseases (bird flu, swine flu, etc.) to humans?


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 10, 2021 7:28 pm
 


Scape Scape:
EG patient zero. This hasn't been done and we do not see this in nature. That is the elephant in the room here.

Where is SARS from? That was never conclusively determined either. Was that a lab leak?

Finding the source of a virus is extremely difficult. It's even harder to determine how it jumps to humans. We don't fully know how ebola jumps to humans either. If you expect this to be solved within 18 months, you're delusional.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 10, 2021 7:52 pm
 


The site of the infection would be a boon to find but as China squandered that due to malfeasance it simply isn't viable. However, COVID-19 is not SARS in that is has not one but two key aspects that allow it to be so infectious and as a derivative of that allows to infect other species as well. However, it still is custom made to infect humans over any other species.

That is why I am not sold that this is zoological. Random mutations may be able to get ONE of the keys to the kingdom but two? I have never heard of that before going back to the bubonic plague. This stinks to high heaven of a botched lab job gone amok.

We will never know for certain how this saw the light of day and although it is theoretically possible that a random mutation could allow two such key adaption could happen I don't see something like that happening out of the blue. This came loaded for bear from the get go.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 10, 2021 8:25 pm
 




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