[hwacker]

Arctic_Menace Arctic_Menace:

Well armed American Military: $446.8 Billion

Advisors to come up with a reason: $12 Million

Fuel to get to Iran: $47 Million

Watching America embarrass itself for the second time: Priceless

hahaha your so wrong

Fuel to get to Iran: Tons in Iraq

After them i say step on Syria on the way home.

[Arctic_Menace]

hwacker hwacker:

Arctic_Menace Arctic_Menace:

Well armed American Military: $446.8 Billion

Advisors to come up with a reason: $12 Million

Fuel to get to Iran: $47 Million

Watching America embarrass itself for the second time: Priceless

hahaha your so wrong

Fuel to get to Iran: Tons in Iraq

After them i say step on Syria on the way home.

Fuel to get to Iran: Tons in Iraq

Space to put a sense of humour: Tons in your head.

[redram22]

the United States barley spends money on nuclear weapons once you have enough to kill the entire earth population then there is no need for more and we slend about a trillon $ a yar on military hardware and we are going to go to war with N korea and Iran more than likley that what the gov is saying i believe they have thought everything through and as far as the military being stretched thin believe me we can easily regroup thats the reason we are know as the global army remember canada we are your ally not your enemy

[xerxes]

Uh.........yeah. You keep on believing that. Whatever helps you sleep at night.

[Ulidian]

America should learn the lessons of the British Empire. Before you take over the role of the Red Coats. I thought the American Revolution was against British Colonial Interventionism? Yet the US Government has slowly taken over the role of the old British empire.

You promote the ideals of freedom, civilization and democracy, yet you use military conquest, colonial governors and colonial style governments based upon the premise of getting oil and strategic wealth. You use the threat of foreign enemies as a means of expansion into foreign nations, which although far from perfect, have caused no real threat. Sure you bring many positive things, although must of it is just promise. But the negetive affects are huge, even though you don't yet realize it, you still are intefearing in peoples affairs which will eventually have a negetive affect.

This is what the British Empire did way back in history. They promoted the ideals of freedom, civilization and democracy, and went on military conquests to supposedly quell threats from foreigners. They established colonies in America and Asia, and placed soldiers, colonial governors and imposed governments and put the ideals of freedom and civilization under the British model. They used their colonies for wealth and strategic gain, and when the Rebels in America took up arms against Britain, they were really pissed that their colonial subjects refused to pay highers taxes and did not appreciate freedom or civiliziation.

We all know what happened to the British Empire. Britain is now a small country with a Commonwealth and less power than it had in 1938, while America is a more powerful nation than it was in 1938. You have taken the role of the British Empire, something which people like George Washington warned against.

Now I am totally British and am extremely proud of the fact, and I think the British Empire promoted some good things and had a good civilization, but it is history and it is history for a reason "All Empires Fall". I am proud of the British army and their willingness to fight to defend peoples rights, but I donot agree with building an American Empire, even if it is supposedly for "Freedom". The ends don't justify the means and you cannot impose democracy or freedom on anyone, especially the people of the middle east.

Even if you set up a multi-ethnic democratic government in Iraq, it will eventually fall, because you can only keep such governments from breaking up if you have a strong military government to enforce that it does. Look at Bosnia and Yugoslavia, a multi-ethnic government that existed for 40 years, fell apart when the military regime fell apart. So unless the US is going to stay and enforce the multi-ethnic government it will not stay in power. Islamic people don't want American democracy on Americans terms, and all the ethnic groups will want their own governments, people and land. You can't stop what come natural to people, especially Muslim Arab people!

"Political institutions grow out of their: religion, moral habits, economy and literature; political ways are but part of an intricate web of civilisation, into which the roots of social order are buried deep. Attempts to impose borrowed institutions upon an alien culture, however well-intentioned, generally are disastrous…" Abid Ullah Jan

[Arctic_Menace]

You make a very good point Ulidian. America's attempts to create a democratic unified state of Iraq is most likely doomed to failure. Gather round class of 2005 for a brief history lesson . Ancient Mesopotamia had tried to incorporate many different cultures into one but ultimately failed because it caused these cultures to try to gain sole control over the advanced civilisation of Mesopotamia. Then we move on to the Great Persian Empire. They tried aswell to respect the different cultures in the region we now call Iraq. But each group wanted control or said that another group had more power than them. This led to many rebellions and wars, causing the Persians a lot of grief. Then along comes Alexander the Great of Macedonia, and even he had trouble trying to keep the cultures of modern Iraq pacified. All these great civilisations tried and failed to unify Iraq. What makes America think they can cure what history has repeated on three occasions??? It does not look promising. Instead of trying to create a unified Iraq, they should create a bunch of smaller nations. One for the Kurds, one for the Sunnis, one for the Shi'ites, and one for the Shias. then everybody gets a decent amount of power and their own country. I don't see how America can prevent or step around what history has repeated.

[redram22]

the US keeps track of things that should happen in the future we know what will more than likely happen to us and alot of other nations and infact a lot of nations do this. Analyst say the United States is almost unchallenged in any way on this earth military wise and that we are the first empire that has the ability to keep an empire going or as we know a global superpower. Now think about it what if China was to rise to power gain the ability to fight over seas and came and kicked the shit out of the United States do you honestly think that the United States would not hesitate to launch nuclear strikes against china therefore they would then have no choice. Plus in the twenty-first century things have been changing a lot, since we now have satilites we can watch nations and know what they are doing and then we are able to figure out if there is a new growing threat, in short we can get rid of threats before they really start. I know some of these things or maybe even this entire post weill totally opposite of what you have heard or believe but an empire like the United States is built to last now if you want to find all the problems with a nation then go ahead we all have problems. I also think a lot of people dont realize how much stronger the United States is than other countries people havnt seen the US military fight a good big time civlized war for about 60 years we are very different now our military is go anywhere it wants and invade and still remain strong and believe me we are not stretched to thin to operate people make america look like its in a state of hystaria believe me the US is doing pretty good and I think we are a good country but if some of yall have doubts about United states military capabilities look it up right off the internet, in fact compare it with other countries you will soon start to realize what the term global superpower means.

[Scape]

Arctic_Menace Arctic_Menace:

I don't see how America can prevent or step around what history has repeated.

Easy, tell an American it can't be done it's been tried before and everyone will hate you if you even think of doing it and they will do it out of spite.

[Ulidian]

Remember Rome was supposedly built to last, it had supperior military might and yet a bunch of Pagans in skirts brought it down!!! The British Empire was supposed to last for well over 1000 years, the new rome and all that!!! The thousand year reich lasted less than 5 years!!! All Empires fall!!! Its a fact of history, and every one of the people in those Empires swore it would last forever, and it didn't. They swore no one could defeat them nor could they be destroyed, and yet they were.

Remember “The world’s greatest power isn’t going to lose to some raggedy ass fourth rate dictator, we’ll grab Ho by the balls and squeeze until he cries uncle.” Lyndon B Johnson on Vietnam. 58,169 American lives later and the war is lost.

"Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it".

[redram22]

well if america did ever lose the position as a global superpower then we are at least garaunteed our own security its called a friggin massive nuclear weapons program if we were at the end of our rope then tell me how will anyone get passed our nuclear threat now if there is going to be a end to the american empire which i would really say its an empire like all the rest then name the country or the system of countries that will defeat us please have good facts instead of just the whole game of "you are going to fall no matter what" you should really start learning about the US military we are not chalenged there is no way we are going to die out or be taken advantage of believe me but if you would like to test this belief that is shared with many govs all around the world then do so

[ManifestDestiny]

Ulidian Ulidian:

Remember Rome was supposedly built to last, it had supperior military might and yet a bunch of Pagans in skirts brought it down!!! The British Empire was supposed to last for well over 1000 years, the new rome and all that!!! The thousand year reich lasted less than 5 years!!! All Empires fall!!! Its a fact of history, and every one of the people in those Empires swore it would last forever, and it didn't. They swore no one could defeat them nor could they be destroyed, and yet they were.

Remember “The world’s greatest power isn’t going to lose to some raggedy ass fourth rate dictator, we’ll grab Ho by the balls and squeeze until he cries uncle.” Lyndon B Johnson on Vietnam. 58,169 American lives later and the war is lost.

"Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it".

The British empire still exists Thats why its called great britian not wales scotland and Nothern Ireland. The thousnad year riech lasted 12 years 1933 to 1945.

LBJ was an asshole he also said after signing the civil rigfhts act of 1964 "I will have those niggers voting democrqt for 200 hundred years" You know whats even sadder so far he is right. African-Americans vote about 90% democrat. As far as 58,169 American dead it pales compared to the millions of VC and North Vietmanese regs. That perished. Just a little foot note More Americans were lost at the battle of gettysburg in three days than 11 years in Vietnam. My uncle died in Vietnam and I still feel we should have stuck it out. BAD POLITICIANS.

[Scape]

NYCisHome NYCisHome:

More Americans were lost at the battle of gettysburg in three days than 11 years in Vietnam. My uncle died in Vietnam and I still feel we should have stuck it out. BAD POLITICIANS.

They stuck it out for 11 years. How long were you intending on staying? South Vietnam was a corrupt regime, I could see your point if the war was in Australia. If your so hungry for war with the rest of the world why are you posting on a Canadian chat board and not in Iraq is Canada such a threat?

[ManifestDestiny]

when did I ever say attack Canada? I do think Iran should be next.

[UnionJack67]

I wish you Canadians would get some courage and invade the US.

Bloody hell, you already own most of Florida in the Winter.

Arrest Bush and put him on trial for war crimes and lying to the public.

If you shut down the border, the lack of tourism would cripple the US.

To hell with Bloody Iran.. I say US next.

[hormel26c]

The current US fiscal deficit is approaching according to the US Treasury Dept $690 billion this year ;

The US current-account deficit US Bureau of Economic Analysis (receipts and payments on goods, services, income and net unilateral transfers) $666 billion in 2004;

US National Debt $7.8 trillion, increasing by $2.15 billion per day. To give it the right effect, every living resident of the United States owes $26,370 before including any personal debt, and this includes those who don't earn a penny;

Foreign owned assets in the US (same US gov't source as above) $1.43 trillion (that is the liability of the US to foreigners);

US owned assets abroad (same source) $817.7 billion (the liability owed by foreigners to US);

Net financial inflow to the US (This is what it would cost to buy back your own country from the rest of the world) $615.5 billion $2400 per person in the US;

The US education system is failing at the primary and secondary level. There are not enough teachers and fewer people are willing to become teachers (according to the NEA)(there is some evidence in this thread of that);

Stinging from a huge recruiting shortfall, the US Army has raised the maximum age of new recruits in the Army Reserve and National Guard to 39. The volunteers for the volunteer army just aren't there;

The US is dealing with an "insurgency" in Iraq which has no end in sight. (The rest of the world calls it a "resistance", but we'll go with Rumsfeld's version for now);

The US Army Chief of Staff has ordered that rotation three and four of troops to Iraq be sized the same as rotation one and two. This will keep US troops, at the current manpower level, in Iraq past the end of 2007;

Crude oil costs $50.22 a bbl compared to $37.21 a year ago today. This kind of leap in the heaviest oil consuming country on the planet subracts from the economy and creates unemployment.

That's just a few of the facts Americans should be looking at. Now, before somebody accuses me of gloating over all those horrible figures, I find it terrifying to have the US in that position. Even the strongest economy in the world can't withstand that kind of pressure forever.

But you think Iran should be next? How? Check out the national bank account. The US adventure in Iraq has cost 10 times what Bush initially asked for and 100 times what Wolfowitz said it would cost. You can't afford to try to take on another country. You can't afford what you're doing now.