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PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 2005 4:56 am
 


$1:
I think you will care when a great whack of trucks are held up at the border getting searched and inspected. The backlog will hurt the businesses dependent on the "Just-In-Time" delivery model.


It won't happen. You know as well as I do that business in the US would shut down that kind of slowdown about a day after it was implemented. They aren't buying our products because they want to be nice to us, they are buying them because they need them.

$1:
You've also stated you would wish to see quotas. What happens if somebody exceeds that quota or sells outside regular channels? Would you fine them? Arrest them? What consequences can you impose that are in any way different from the laws on the CDSA right now? Who is going to enforce the quotas or seize excess crop?


Like I said, give it to the Wheat Board. Check into that...you'll find that there are penalties, including jail, for people who try to dodge the system.

$1:
And coming to our collective senses isn't a persuasive argument at all. How is legalizing marijuana any different from legalizing murder? Murder happens despite being on the books so why not legalize it and tax it too? You're never going to 100% eradicate it, millions of dollars are spent prosecuting people (who too can claim they 'made a mistake') who are forever stigmatized. Those lines of thought are faulty when it comes to legalizing marijuana.


Because the illegality of marijuana was a flawed idea to begin with. Look into that too...Janey Canuck made some shit up so we bowed to American pressure. The law never should have existed.

More than that, have a look at when prohibitions work and when they collapse. Prohibitions work when it is "us" imposing it on "them". There is no "them" anymore because the majority of Canadians use drugs themselves or know somebody who does. The prohibition is unsustainable at that point.

$1:
Also, there is nothing 'benign' about marijuana. It isn't a glass of milk. It has all the same harmful effects of tobacco, causes memory deficiencies and eventually can induce schizophreniamimetic responses in chronic users. If you think THC is akin to riboflavin, think again. I'll anticipate your next argument and cut it off at the pass. Marijuana, as it was in the 60's, wasn't too addictive and could be used recreationally and occassionally, right? Today's marijuana is not yesterday's marijuana. The THC content of domestically produced marijuana today is roughly 3 or 4 times stronger than it was. The trend is to increase potency to the point it becomes addictive, and even 60's levels were addictive. Don't believe me? Dr. George Koob, director of the Psychopharmacology Department at Scripps Research Institute and Professor at the University of California San Diego has published study after study confirming this.


We can play duelling studies if you want. There are more peer reviewed articles backing me up than there are backing you up though. I'm sure you are fully aware of that however, which is why you brought up the Koob studies.

You kind of miss my point though...it isn't just marijuana that we need to change the criminal status of, it's all drugs. We didn't have a major addiction crisis before we made drugs illegal. Those that were addicts often led full and productive lives. We are treating medical and social problems as criminal ones and it isn't working. After a hundred years of failure it's about time we tried something else.



$1:
Is the government hypocritical by stating they intend to decriminalize simple possession but increase penalties for growing? Yup. I agree. Having been one of those folks who voted Liberal, I'm more than pissed at Martin's current dithering.


So you would keep on criminalizing people for smoking pot?

$1:
Legalization is surrender. The good fight is prohibition but better strategies are needed to curb the demand, not just attempts to destroy the supply.


Legalization is sanity. Prohibition doesn't work, has never worked, and will continue not to work. If we took the money and human resources wasted trying to enforce prohibition and put them towards education, rehabilitation and harm reduction we would have an effect.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 2005 7:18 am
 


You're right, we're probably never going to see eye-to-eye on something like this.

But, as a quick refutation, your solution of giving control of marijuana production to the Wheat Board or some similar institution hasn't changed anything. If there are contraventions of its dictums, how are you going to enforce it? How are you going to seize excess crops? How are you going to bring these people to justice? WHO is going to do this? Wheat Board officials? So, despite your efforts at legalizing marijuana to end criminal involvement, police storming illegal growing operations run by organized crime still exists in your solution.

I also disagree on duelling studies as you're using it to mask your original statement. You said it was 'benign'. Corn syrup is benign. Paper airplanes are benign. Marijuana isn't.

You may wish to rethink your statement that there weren't addiction problems before drugs were prohibited. Opium dens perhaps? Thomas De Quincy's Confessions of an Opium Eater? Where once he railed against denying anybody it's pleasure, he ends the book with his Pains of Opium. Sure, it's one man's record, but rather telling.

You've still avoided the whole problem with your reasons for legalizing. You have avoided differentiating between legalizing marijuana (or heroin too apparently) and murder. Any argument made for their legalization can be applied to murder too.

However, I believe we agree on devoting more resources to preventative education. Cutting demand is key to winning any war on drugs. The RCMP does have a program called Racing Against Drugs, similar to DARE although aimed at a younger audience. Never heard of it? That's why it needs more resources, so that everyone will have.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 2005 7:28 am
 


EVEN IF POT IS MAGE LEGAL, THE CRIMINAL ELEMENT WILL ALLWAYS BE THERE BECAUSE OF THE VAST AMOUNTS OF MONEY TO BE MADE WITH IT.. LOOK, CIGARETTES ARE LEGAL, BUT THERE IS STILL A big BUSINESS IN SELLING SMUGGLED SMOKES IN CANADA,, (i KNOW THIS FROM FIRST HAND KNOWLEDGE)
there is also still people making money from cheaper booze in Canada too..
I also agree that we need to get the message out to the youth that drugs are bad and wrong.. as it all goes to support organised crime here and in other countries.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 2005 10:49 am
 


$1:
But, as a quick refutation, your solution of giving control of marijuana production to the Wheat Board or some similar institution hasn't changed anything. If there are contraventions of its dictums, how are you going to enforce it? How are you going to seize excess crops? How are you going to bring these people to justice? WHO is going to do this? Wheat Board officials? So, despite your efforts at legalizing marijuana to end criminal involvement, police storming illegal growing operations run by organized crime still exists in your solution.


It creates a different attitude though, Dayseed. Cops will be storming one thing or another forever. The grow-ops will either be legal, which takes all those mom and pop operations out of the criminal venue, or they will be illegal.

$1:
I also disagree on duelling studies as you're using it to mask your original statement. You said it was 'benign'. Corn syrup is benign. Paper airplanes are benign. Marijuana isn't.


I'm not trying to mask anything, Dayseed. I didn't, if you read the post, say that marijuana was benign. I said "Now, in our infinite wisdom, we're going to reduce the penalty for having a little bit of the most benign illegal drug while increasing the penalties for growing it." Are you saying that marijuana is not the most benign illegal drug?

BTW, corn syrup causes your teeth to rot, so it isn't benign either. A paper airplane, according to mother's all over the world, could put somebody's eye out...also not benign.

$1:
You may wish to rethink your statement that there weren't addiction problems before drugs were prohibited. Opium dens perhaps? Thomas De Quincy's Confessions of an Opium Eater? Where once he railed against denying anybody it's pleasure, he ends the book with his Pains of Opium. Sure, it's one man's record, but rather telling.


I didn't say there weren't addiction problems, I said, "We didn't have a major addiction crisis before we made drugs illegal. Those that were addicts often led full and productive lives. We are treating medical and social problems as criminal ones and it isn't working. After a hundred years of failure it's about time we tried something else." See the difference between "addiction problems" and a "major addiction crisis"? Notice that De Quincy wrote a book? So did Coleridge. Carrol not only wrote Alice in Wonderland, but was a successful mathematician.



$1:
You've still avoided the whole problem with your reasons for legalizing. You have avoided differentiating between legalizing marijuana (or heroin too apparently) and murder. Any argument made for their legalization can be applied to murder too.


Except that murder is perpetrated on somebody against their will. Drug abuse is not. Oh...before you ask...I don't believe that suicide should be illegal either.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 2005 7:14 pm
 


alright this is my first post here and i signed up to let out my opinion

this whole thing is a mess. the dude is a low life with nothin goin for him so he when hes about to be taken down he just goes off with his gun and kill 4 young people and since his life is worthless he take himself out. its beyond a tradegy.

this kinda stuff makes me wish i was never born or died before i was 10 cuz back then u got no possession and little value for any form of relationship beyond your household. you 10 years old u havent developed a place in the community, your friends are just there and u have no real value for them they come they go at that age for the most part. These RCMPs were all old enough to establish a life of their own, they had relationships that had strong values, one dude was engaged, these dudes were young and had so much ahead of them and knew what they could do with their life. This was all taken by a guy who had nothin to live for, just cuz his life had no value doesnt mean the other guys didnt. As an 18 year old i still have alot to experience but knowing my life could be takin from me like these ppl lost their i dont wanna live any more i dont wanna gain more to lose and i dont want to give ppl something to lose. The world is a terrible place to be at

now i wouldnt blame the weed on any large scale in this situation.I know alot of ppl that smoke weed and they dont cause problems.Its the mental state of a person in a situation, now the drugs could change his mental state but weed is a low level drug that will not mess someone up to the level of not knowing what hes doing with a gun in his hand.

as for the legalization, i support it, the government will take the weed industry over in a monopoly, he will sell it in stores like cigarettes and it will sell at a good rate, the price will drop and it will be a industry that the government owns and the prices will go down so much that the street weed dealers will have to sell it for just as much as it cost to grow and they will be outta business


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 2005 7:29 pm
 


some nerve of illsionfive to come here and with his 1st post try to make folks think he is so much smarrter then the rest... well buddy it dont work that way... CYA
(RH)


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 2005 7:38 pm
 


Did you wear your tinfoil hat while typing all that? :roll:


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 2005 8:30 pm
 


Illusionfive is fucking hilarious! Hope he's for real! It makes it more fun to piss him off!


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 2005 9:13 pm
 


This thread started out talking about 4 law enforcment officers killed in the line of duty, and has gone down into the toilet.. here is a pic of the 4 officers so that maybe putting a face to the story will change your shitty attitudes here...
Image


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 2005 9:22 pm
 


Image


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2005 9:23 am
 


It really saddens me when I see people having such infantile knee jerk reactions as I've witnessed here. Jim Roszko killed four RCMP officers because he was a hardened criminal/nut bar who hated cops. It had nothing to do with pot. It had to do with a failed criminal justice system.

Whenever anything happens it seems people only look at a tiny bit of it and lay the blame in the wrong place.

Example.. Pit bulls bite people because their owners are thugs who mistreat them, not because they are inherently all mean. Let's ban thugs, not pit bulls.

Example.. Mark Lepine was a nut with a gun who killed some people; period. Don't read anything into it. It wasn't students. It wasn't women. it was people. Let's lock nut bars up and not give them guns.

Anyhow, think about Roszko. Don't just look where some media dork tells you. He was in prison before. He shouldn't have been let out without being cured of his mental problems. He was. It wasn't his fault and it certainly wasn't the fault of a few plants. Let's fix the criminal justice system.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2005 9:27 am
 


RoyalHighlander RoyalHighlander:
This thread started out talking about 4 law enforcment officers killed in the line of duty, and has gone down into the toilet.. here is a pic of the 4 officers so that maybe putting a face to the story will change your shitty attitudes here...
Image


Thank you I brought this up earlier but it seems that noone seemed to care....


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 11, 2005 3:44 pm
 


stunning pictures in TheProvince newspaper today of the funeral.

Impressive seeing all those red jackets.

Flags are still at half mast all around vancouver, been like that all week I think.


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