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Court to decide if polygamy laws conflict with rights charte
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Author:  Gunnair [ Wed Nov 24, 2010 9:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Court to decide if polygamy laws conflict with rights charte

Lemmy Lemmy:
Gunnair Gunnair:
Gotcha. That being said, Christianity was used as a justification for slavery in the US.

$1:
"[Slavery] was established by decree of Almighty God...it is sanctioned in the Bible, in both Testaments, from Genesis to Revelation...it has existed in all ages, has been found among the people of the highest civilization, and in nations of the highest proficiency in the arts." Jefferson Davis, President, Confederate States of America


Oh yeah, of course they used Christianity as a justification. People have been using religious texts to justify their madness througout the ages. But the REASON for slavery in the USA was money. And it's funny that you picked Davis for your quote. He believed emancipation would come, but not until the black man was trained. Davis' personal justification for slavery was his perceived biological superiority of the white over the black. Davis believed that niggers would evolve into gentlemen, with the white man's help and guidance. Davis was Darwinian evolutionist...not particularly typical of a 19th century Christian.


Okay, well, yes, reason slaves were in the US - economics. Justification? Several, Biblical being one of them.

Author:  Lemmy [ Wed Nov 24, 2010 9:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Court to decide if polygamy laws conflict with rights charte

romanP romanP:
Why shouldn't we have agencies like that in Canada? It's a lot better than not having them!


It's hard to argue with that.

Author:  andyt [ Thu Nov 25, 2010 12:04 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Court to decide if polygamy laws conflict with rights charte

romanP romanP:
andyt andyt:
We should make a clean distinction between bigamy, which is marrying more than one person, and polygamy, which is more than two people living together. And we should raise the age of marriage to 18.


Bigamy and polygamy, within a monogamous legal framework, mean exactly the same thing. Without the monogamous legal framework, bigamy is an irrelevant term when it comes to polygamy, and is only relevant to monogamous marriages.


Nope, people have been prosecuted for bigamy for legally (but under false pretenses) marrying more than two people - ie they had multiple wives.

Polygamy is legally defined as people living together as if married with more than one person - they don't even have to be having sex for this to apply.

And in court, BC has made the argument that polygamy is only illegal if one man has multiple wives, but not if one woman has multiple husbands.

Author:  ShepherdsDog [ Thu Nov 25, 2010 1:33 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Court to decide if polygamy laws conflict with rights charte

Gunnair Gunnair:
ShepherdsDog ShepherdsDog:
The Hamitic people were actually labelled a sub group of the 'white race', like trhe arabs. Dark skin but caucasian features.


That may be, but the Curse of Ham, with the myth that people descended from Ham were blacks, is one of the justifications Christians employed for slavery.


$1:
1 Timothy 6
1 All who are under the yoke of slavery should consider their masters worthy of full respect, so that God’s name and our teaching may not be slandered. 2 Those who have believing masters should not show them disrespect just because they are fellow believers. Instead, they should serve them even better because their masters are dear to them as fellow believers and are devoted to the welfare[a] of their slaves.


This refers to the biblical concept of slavery. Race did not play a role in determining who was a slave. Any ethnicity could be a slave, yet they were still viewed as humans. Blacks were treated as animals by the American slavers. Biblical slavery was indentured servitude or serfdom, yet you keep refewrring to the modern slav trade and practises.

Author:  billypilgrim [ Thu Nov 25, 2010 9:51 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Court to decide if polygamy laws conflict with rights charte

back to the bountiful, b.c. issue:

to me, this is less about religious freedom and more about fundamentalists' legal loopholing. this is warren jeffs and winston blackmore trying to find a legal port of entry (no pun intended) for the sanctioned brainwashing and rape of young women. (jeffs has already been convicted of assisting the rape of a 14 yr. old girl by her 19 yr. old cousin.)

i do acknowledge that there are consenting adults out there who wish to take on multiple wives or partners or whatever. fine. i'm not really concerned about 'secular' polygamy. what i am worried about is guys like winston blackmore running a crazy religious racket whose roots lay with the absurd claims made by joseph smith back in the 1800's, specifically, of mormom men's divine claim to the girls of their choosing, at their convenience. it's the needless torment of young women, based on outright lies. ..as is the whole mormon faith...

Author:  andyt [ Thu Nov 25, 2010 8:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Court to decide if polygamy laws conflict with rights charte

billypilgrim billypilgrim:
back to the bountiful, b.c. issue:

to me, this is less about religious freedom and more about fundamentalists' legal loopholing. this is warren jeffs and winston blackmore trying to find a legal port of entry (no pun intended) for the sanctioned brainwashing and rape of young women. (jeffs has already been convicted of assisting the rape of a 14 yr. old girl by her 19 yr. old cousin.)

i do acknowledge that there are consenting adults out there who wish to take on multiple wives or partners or whatever. fine. i'm not really concerned about 'secular' polygamy. what i am worried about is guys like winston blackmore running a crazy religious racket whose roots lay with the absurd claims made by joseph smith back in the 1800's, specifically, of mormom men's divine claim to the girls of their choosing, at their convenience. it's the needless torment of young women, based on outright lies. ..as is the whole mormon faith...


What are you going to do, make polygamy only legal for atheists? Who cares what their motivations are? What needs to be stopped is these guys marrying girls under 18 because the girls' parents consent to it. And what needs to be stopped is any sort of legal union between more than two adults, because it leads to all sorts of economic problems. What should be allowed is any number of adults living together however they see fit.

Author:  billypilgrim [ Fri Nov 26, 2010 9:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Court to decide if polygamy laws conflict with rights charte

$1:
What are you going to do, make polygamy only legal for atheists?


good point. wouldn't wash very well, would it?

Author:  ASLplease [ Fri Nov 26, 2010 9:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Court to decide if polygamy laws conflict with rights charte

Even the vast majority of aithiest and/or inactive christian women object to the concept of polygamy. Should we ignore their opinions? Should they not be considered?

Author:  Yogi [ Fri Nov 26, 2010 10:41 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Court to decide if polygamy laws conflict with rights charte

ASLplease ASLplease:
Even the vast majority of aithiest and/or inactive christian women object to the concept of polygamy. Should we ignore their opinions? Should they not be considered?



Then that would be a situation where the adage 'Just say no' would come into play!


If the majority of citizens wanted this concept passed into law, it would be. Not going to happen! I, for one, beleive in 'live and let live'. If a guy is foolish enough to want more than one 'wife' at a time, that's 'their' business.
I also don't believe that polygamus relationships foster child abuse or child sexual assault anymore than non-polygamus relationships do. Wherein such situations happen, it is just a simple case of a PEDOPHILE hiding behind the bible!

Author:  andyt [ Fri Nov 26, 2010 10:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Court to decide if polygamy laws conflict with rights charte

Yogi Yogi:
ASLplease ASLplease:
Even the vast majority of aithiest and/or inactive christian women object to the concept of polygamy. Should we ignore their opinions? Should they not be considered?



Then that would be a situation where the adage 'Just say no' would come into play!


If the majority of citizens wanted this concept passed into law, it would be. Not going to happen! I, for one, beleive in 'live and let live'. If a guy is foolish enough to want more than one 'wife' at a time, that's 'their' business.
I also don't believe that polygamus relationships foster child abuse or child sexual assault anymore than non-polygamus relationships do. Wherein such situations happen, it is just a simple case of a PEDOPHILE hiding behind the bible!


Exactly - we already have laws to protect children, and the men in Bountiful should have been charged with sexual exploitation long ago.

What should not be recognized is any legal status or rights arising out of polygamy. What a headache that would create with various benefit programs, as well as with immigration. One guy could marry twenty women to sponsor who each then marry 19 more guys to sponsor who each then....

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