[andyt]

It just shows how well the propaganda machine of the rich works, that there would be any confusion. Obviously money hidden is hidden to avoid tax, otherwise why hide it?

From the link:

$1:

The sheer size of the cash pile sitting out of reach of tax authorities is so great that it suggests standard measures of inequality radically underestimate the true gap between rich and poor. According to Henry's calculations, £6.3tn of assets is owned by only 92,000 people, or 0.001% of the world's population – a tiny class of the mega-rich who have more in common with each other than those at the bottom of the income scale in their own societies.

Leaders of G20 countries have repeatedly pledged to close down tax havens since the financial crisis of 2008, when the secrecy shrouding parts of the banking system was widely seen as exacerbating instability. But many countries still refuse to make details of individuals' financial worth available to the tax authorities in their home countries as a matter of course.

The headline is misleading. That's 13 trillion pounds = 21 trillion dollars. And as the article says, it may be as much as 20 trillion pounds = 32 trillion dollars. One saving grace is that this amount is the worldwide amount - a lot of that money is from oil states and other developing countries. It's not all from Western countries.


With that German guy who stole the Swiss banking records and gave them to other govt (sold them?) it allowed the US to put a lot of pressure on UBS and other Swiss banks to open their books. Guess that didn't last long.

[CrazyNewfie]

Yeah, they're cheating on their taxes, which really in the end means they're stealing from us as Prof_Chomsky stated earlier. And the amount they're stealing from us is mindboggling:
As andyt pointed out it's a staggering amount of money, earlier in the article it said it was more than the US and Japan's GDP combined! IMO hoarding of wealth to that extent should not be allowed. I know there's no way to stop it without a total revolt by the people, but if all that money was spread out a bit more evenly we could start figuring out some of the worlds problems. I think if things keep getting worse, ie global warming, sea levels rising, agriculteral land drying up causing food shortages, nations going bankrupt, etc, etc, etc, and through it all the elite are sitting back well fed in their mansions there could be a serious backlash. Though I doubt it, we are tamed like sheep to well.

Just my rant!

[Prof_Chomsky]

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

It's been going on forever.

Why is an issue now?

Freakinoldguy Freakinoldguy:

Neat.

A charity that likely pays no taxes bitching about other people hiding their tax money.

DanSC DanSC:

They may be exploiting loopholes and not paying their fair share, but it isn't stealing.

Freakinoldguy Freakinoldguy:

They may not be ripoff artists but they are in reality a corporation using the designation of Charity to further their own agenda who, since they pay no taxes don't really have a vested interest in changing the all taxation systems around the world.

There’s that apathy I was talking about, mixed with a hint of ignorance and a dash of “let’s change the subject”.

Look, I guarantee you’re the first ones to complain how the government “wastes” your hard earned taxes on dumb stuff while our bridges, schools, healthcare and everything else decays before our eyes. These guys broke the law and hid tens of trillions of dollars from the tax man. If you or I did that, the penalty would be forfeiture of the entire amount. At a time when we are going deeper and deeper into debt due to global BANK FRAUD I’d hope that at least the average tax paying citizen would say “FFS, that’s enough.” The fact you’re knee jerk reaction is to accept, defend, ignore, or redirect your attention shows me exactly why we’re in this boat. Well done.

[OnTheIce]

Prof_Chomsky Prof_Chomsky:

These guys broke the law and hid tens of trillions of dollars from the tax man. If you or I did that, the penalty would be forfeiture of the entire amount. At a time when we are going deeper and deeper into debt due to global BANK FRAUD I’d hope that at least the average tax paying citizen would say “FFS, that’s enough.” The fact you’re knee jerk reaction is to accept, defend, ignore, or redirect your attention shows me exactly why we’re in this boat. Well done.

It doesn't appear any laws have been broken. They're working within existing rules and moving their money around.

The problem lies with government. Because governments all over the World have kept these loopholes open, they will continue to be used.

[Wada]

It's all about intent, or should be. If you move your money with the intent of not paying taxes then you are guilty. Seems simple.

[andyt]

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

Prof_Chomsky Prof_Chomsky:

These guys broke the law and hid tens of trillions of dollars from the tax man. If you or I did that, the penalty would be forfeiture of the entire amount. At a time when we are going deeper and deeper into debt due to global BANK FRAUD I’d hope that at least the average tax paying citizen would say “FFS, that’s enough.” The fact you’re knee jerk reaction is to accept, defend, ignore, or redirect your attention shows me exactly why we’re in this boat. Well done.

It doesn't appear any laws have been broken. They're working within existing rules and moving their money around.

The problem lies with government. Because governments all over the World have kept these loopholes open, they will continue to be used.

Laws have been broken and if the IRS can find these accounts, you'd better believe there will be consequences. Not paying taxes is a crime.

But agree with the last sentence, as does the OP - governments want to know about accounts in other countries, but aren't willing to give other countries access to theirs. And Luxembourg and Lichtenstein and various Caribbean countries make most of their income from having these hidden accounts. If the big western governments were serious about dealing with this bullshit, they would make sure tax havens suffer consequences for their actions

[DanSC]

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

It doesn't appear any laws have been broken. They're working within existing rules and moving their money around.

The problem lies with government. Because governments all over the World have kept these loopholes open, they will continue to be used.

Bingo. I think the laws should be changed, but if the actions are legal, nothing has been stolen.

If the actions are illegal, you need to report the crimes to the appropriate law enforcement agencies.

[BartSimpson]

andyt andyt:

Just lower taxes on the rich. Have a flat rate so the rich pay the same percentage as the poor. Then they would leave their money at home. While it wouldn't be good for govt income, it would make the banks rich, and that, as we know, would trickle down to the poor people.

It's funny how often you and I agree on things anymore.

Frankly, if most of the world's nations would agree on a flat tax at the same rate then there would not be any places to act as tax shelters, either.

Oh, and not much is going to happen in the way of pursuing these people because no doubt a good number of politicians are amongst those who are hiding their wealth offshore.

[andyt]

How is it legal to hide money from the tax man? We know the IRS is going after money held out of the country by US citizenxs in a very tough manner. Unfortunately this is catching people who don't know they are US citizens or haven't earned money in the US so didn't think they had to file. Now the IRS is pressuring Canadian banks to disclose this information or be barred from operating in the US. As usual the little guys who weren't doing anything wrong get caught up in this, while he big boys have the means to hide their money from the IRS.

Report what - without the tax havens co-operating, how do you prove it?

[DanSC]

Putting the money in foreign accounts doesn't have to mean hiding the money. Everyone knows about Mitt Romney's legal accounts in the Cayman Islands; if he's hiding that money, he's doing a horrible job of it.

[andyt]

He may be brazen enough to brag about it, but he's cheating the US govt of taxes - they can't do anything because they have no access to Cayman banking info. If they did, you bet he'd have to pay, with penalties, possibly even criminal charges.

$1:

"He's basically admitting here that the Bain funds are set up in the Cayman Islands to help people avoid tax," said Rebecca Wilkins, senior counsel for federal tax policy at Citizens for Tax Justice, a nonprofit tax reform group. "If you want to cheat on your taxes, boy, they're making it really easy."

Since the Cayman Islands do not report information on their investors' accounts to other nations, however, such sub-companies don't merely help foreign investors avoid U.S. taxes, they help investors avoid paying taxes in other nations, as well. The ploy can even help American taxpayers invest in U.S. companies without accruing a tax bill with the IRS. By establishing personal offshore entities, Americans can pose as foreign investors and avoid paying U.S. taxes on investments in American firms.

"Even a U.S. investor pretending to be a foreign investor, by using a Bermuda or Cayman Islands shell entity, can avoid U.S. tax this way," Wilkins told HuffPost. "And we know that's going on. We know that U.S. investors are evading taxes by pretending to be foreigners."

[CrazyNewfie]

You know, I think the main problem here isn't tax evasion, it's greed. Mankind is inheritantly greedy, most of us always want more, more, more, and are never content with what we have. And it seems the more wealth and power you get the more greedy and corrupt you become. Who the f^ck needs a Trillion dollars? Actually if you break it down 32T / 92000 you get $347,826,086 each. That's half a billion each between the top 92,000.

andyt andyt:

He may be brazen enough to brag about it, but he's cheating the US govt of taxes - they can't do anything because they have no access to Cayman banking info. If they did, you bet he'd have to pay, with penalties, possibly even criminal charges.

$1:

"He's basically admitting here that the Bain funds are set up in the Cayman Islands to help people avoid tax," said Rebecca Wilkins, senior counsel for federal tax policy at Citizens for Tax Justice, a nonprofit tax reform group. "If you want to cheat on your taxes, boy, they're making it really easy."

Since the Cayman Islands do not report information on their investors' accounts to other nations, however, such sub-companies don't merely help foreign investors avoid U.S. taxes, they help investors avoid paying taxes in other nations, as well. The ploy can even help American taxpayers invest in U.S. companies without accruing a tax bill with the IRS. By establishing personal offshore entities, Americans can pose as foreign investors and avoid paying U.S. taxes on investments in American firms.

"Even a U.S. investor pretending to be a foreign investor, by using a Bermuda or Cayman Islands shell entity, can avoid U.S. tax this way," Wilkins told HuffPost. "And we know that's going on. We know that U.S. investors are evading taxes by pretending to be foreigners."

[andyt]

CrazyNewfie CrazyNewfie:

You know, I think the main problem here isn't tax evasion, it's greed. Mankind is inheritantly greedy, most of us always want more, more, more, and are never content with what we have. And it seems the more wealth and power you get the more greedy and corrupt you become. Who the f^ck needs a Trillion dollars? Actually if you break it down 32T / 92000 you get $347,826,086 each. That's half a billion each between the top 92,000.

Well yeah. But not as greedy as you say. The 92,000 only have about 10 trillion stashed away. So that's a mere 100 million or so, per. Don't you feel better now.

Just saw a headline that said what do people need to feel rich. The answer was about twice what they have now. I'm sure there are billionaires who say I'd be rich if only I had another billion.

[OnTheIce]

andyt andyt:

He may be brazen enough to brag about it, but he's cheating the US govt of taxes - they can't do anything because they have no access to Cayman banking info. If they did, you bet he'd have to pay, with penalties, possibly even criminal charges.

It's not cheating, when it's legal.

Even if they did have access to such accounts, there's nothing they can do. You can't charge someone for something that isn't illegal.

[andyt]

It's not legal to put your money offshore and not declare it to the IRS. If he did declare it he would have paid taxes on it.