[bootlegga]

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

Thanos Thanos:

They've gone on about that national American TV deal for over twenty years now. The best they ever got out of was 2 PM on NBC Saturday afternoons, being less popular on ESPN4 than NASCAR or PBA Pro Bowling are, and follow-the-glowing-puck on FOX. The regional/local TV deals are solid for US fans, so it makes no sense anymore to beat themselves up over a utopian national TV deal that's not ever going to happen. You don't even see coast-to-coast broadcasts of baseball anymore as the regional market takes care of the fan's needs far better than the old network broadcasts ever did. To think that the NHL would do better than America's traditionally favourite sport would do is just plain foolish. If they couldn't get a national deal in the era of Gretzky or Lemieux they certainly aren't going to get one in an era like today's one where they don't even have the megastars of yesteryear.

Besides the National 2 billion dollar 10 year deal they did with NBC/Versus last season?

Thanos is correct though - the Bruins gets more from its deal with NESN than it does from NBC.

The NHL deal with NBC is still peanuts compared to what baseball, football and basketball have - the others all get a billion or more per season. Hell, football gets so much in TV revenues that most teams don't even need fans in the stands to break even!

[2Cdo]

bootlegga bootlegga:

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

Thanos Thanos:

They've gone on about that national American TV deal for over twenty years now. The best they ever got out of was 2 PM on NBC Saturday afternoons, being less popular on ESPN4 than NASCAR or PBA Pro Bowling are, and follow-the-glowing-puck on FOX. The regional/local TV deals are solid for US fans, so it makes no sense anymore to beat themselves up over a utopian national TV deal that's not ever going to happen. You don't even see coast-to-coast broadcasts of baseball anymore as the regional market takes care of the fan's needs far better than the old network broadcasts ever did. To think that the NHL would do better than America's traditionally favourite sport would do is just plain foolish. If they couldn't get a national deal in the era of Gretzky or Lemieux they certainly aren't going to get one in an era like today's one where they don't even have the megastars of yesteryear.

Besides the National 2 billion dollar 10 year deal they did with NBC/Versus last season?

Thanos is correct though - the Bruins gets more from its deal with NESN than it does from NBC.

The NHL deal with NBC is still peanuts compared to what baseball, football and basketball have - the others all get a billion or more per season. Hell, football gets so much in TV revenues that most teams don't even need fans in the stands to break even!

Baseball must get a sweet deal because every time I watch the sports news the stands are at best half full for most teams.

[bootlegga]

2Cdo 2Cdo:

bootlegga bootlegga:

Thanos is correct though - the Bruins gets more from its deal with NESN than it does from NBC.

The NHL deal with NBC is still peanuts compared to what baseball, football and basketball have - the others all get a billion or more per season. Hell, football gets so much in TV revenues that most teams don't even need fans in the stands to break even!

Baseball must get a sweet deal because every time I watch the sports news the stands are at best half full for most teams.

Yep - the Yankees got $90 million from their LOCAL TV deal last year, nevermind their share of the nearly $600 million or so national deal with Fox;

$1:

YES generated a staggering $224 million in operating income and paid the Yankees a $90 million rights fee in 2011.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/mikeozanian ... ball-2012/

Fox's deal on paper is smaller than the NFL or NBA, but that's because it shares the playoffs with TBS.

Baseball is interesting because it looks like many teams are shifting to regional networks like NESN & YES instead of relying on national deals, simply because they get way more from local TV deals.

[OnTheIce]

bootlegga bootlegga:

Thanos is correct though - the Bruins gets more from its deal with NESN than it does from NBC.

Correct in some aspects, yes...but in others, he's not. He claimed they've been "going on" about a deal for 20 years, one that's already been done and isn't just a 2pm timeslot.

bootlegga bootlegga:

The NHL deal with NBC is still peanuts compared to what baseball, football and basketball have - the others all get a billion or more per season. Hell, football gets so much in TV revenues that most teams don't even need fans in the stands to break even!

True, but how does that matter? Hockey isn't a national sport so getting a 2 billion dollar TV deal is pretty decent, wouldn't you think?

Do the owners stop caring about generating other revenue streams because they can't keep up with the NFL or the NBA?

bootlegga bootlegga:

Baseball is interesting because it looks like many teams are shifting to regional networks like NESN & YES instead of relying on national deals, simply because they get way more from local TV deals.

Probably because the networks are owned by the teams. NESN is 80% owned by the Fenway Sports Group that also owns the Red Sox and YES is owned completely by the Yankees

[bootlegga]

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

bootlegga bootlegga:

The NHL deal with NBC is still peanuts compared to what baseball, football and basketball have - the others all get a billion or more per season. Hell, football gets so much in TV revenues that most teams don't even need fans in the stands to break even!

True, but how does that matter? Hockey isn't a national sport so getting a 2 billion dollar TV deal is pretty decent, wouldn't you think?

Do the owners stop caring about generating other revenue streams because they can't keep up with the NFL or the NBA?

Agreed, the deal is better than most past deals, but it's still a far cry from other major leagues and that difference in TV revenues (and other revenues) means the NHL is still largely dependent on gate revenues, whereas the other leagues aren't.

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

bootlegga bootlegga:

Baseball is interesting because it looks like many teams are shifting to regional networks like NESN & YES instead of relying on national deals, simply because they get way more from local TV deals.

Probably because the networks are owned by the teams. NESN is 80% owned by the Fenway Sports Group that also owns the Red Sox and YES is owned completely by the Yankees

True, because they can get more revenues from owning their own regional network than Fox or NBC is willing to give them. That's why places like Cleveland, Houston and LA are working on creating their own networks too.

[OnTheIce]

bootlegga bootlegga:

...means the NHL is still largely dependent on gate revenues, whereas the other leagues aren't.

Precisely why owners don't want teams in places like Hamilton or Quebec City.

Teams that rely on good gates need good or well established teams to bring in more fans and more money at the gate. If a team like Dallas is scraping by hoping on big gates, teams like Hamilton won't be a big draw.

[Unsound]

It seems to me though that Canadian teams are the ones that can afford to rely on making money at the gate. Canadian fans consistently sell-out the arenas even for shitty teams, like my Oilers , and charge more for the tickets. From what'I've seen of the kind of ticket prices in some of the southern cities, they'd need twice as many seats filled to make any money!

[Regina]

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

The Oilers are the only team close to having that once again but it's unlikely that any of the Canadian teams will land a Crosby, Stamkos or a Gretzky.
You don't move teams to Canada with your fingers crossed hoping you can get a superstar to prop up your franchise.

Wake up! The Canadian teams aren't the ones needing propped up.

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

Like the City that already lost a team? Let's wait till we're beyond the Honeymoon and see how many fans continue to support a losing team.

See above.

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

Why would a player play in Canada for the same money as a US team and pay more in tax? Get a new team in Canada and try to convince them to come to a small market team for the same money and pay more tax.

Because they have a contract and will make the same money both sides of the border. Your logic is outdated and even with the old Cap room for competative teams is limited. The stupid contracts that could bankrupt a team are a thing of the past.

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

Sure, more teams in Canada means less travel but considering that the majority of the teams are in the US, the dent to travel would be very minor.

Really?? So Toronto to New York is a longer and more costly flight than to Vancouver? You started off talking about the hardships faced by players crossing the border and now you've changed directions and are talking travel budgets? I really don't think you know what your talking about in the current NHL era. You seem to be hung up on issues of 20 years ago that were rectified in the past NHLPA and NHL contracts. You don't seem to grasp the fact that the small market teams losing money are all in the US, not Canada.

[OnTheIce]

Regina Regina:

Wake up! The Canadian teams aren't the ones needing propped up.

For now, yes. Let's see what happens when there's a change in the CDN/US dollar.

Regina Regina:

Because they have a contract and will make the same money both sides of the border. Your logic is outdated and even with the old Cap room for competative teams is limited. The stupid contracts that could bankrupt a team are a thing of the past.

No, they don't. A 5 million dollar deal in Edmonton isn't the same as 5 million dollar deal in NYC. The team doesn't compensate you for the differences in taxation from one Country to another.

Regina Regina:

Really?? So Toronto to New York is a longer and more costly flight than to Vancouver? You started off talking about the hardships faced by players crossing the border and now you've changed directions and are talking travel budgets? I really don't think you know what your talking about in the current NHL era. You seem to be hung up on issues of 20 years ago that were rectified in the past NHLPA and NHL contracts. You don't seem to grasp the fact that the small market teams losing money are all in the US, not Canada.

I'm very well aware of the current state of the game and have an excellent behind the scenes look season after season when many of these players return 'home' to Toronto/Ontario for the summer.

Your point was that more Canadian teams means less travel. Less travel for who? Sure, some Northern teams have less travel and some will have more travel.

[Regina]

All players are paid in US funds which obviously has been a bonus for Canadian based teams for years, yet you don't hear the US teams complain about it. That's old news again, which has been addressed in the last CBA. It's not the NHL team of the 90s.

I think you're drawing on exaggeration and misconceptions of taxation. What exactly is the taxation difference? They are all paid in US funds so what's the difference? I skate with another current NHL in the summer who just made the change from Canada to the US and said there isn't that much difference in the end. Maybe you know different?

I skate once a week with 9 or 10 current NHL players along with a bunch of others from the AHL or OHL. So my information and opinion is from them not the news paper or hearsay. I hear them yapping about contracts and endorsements every week.

No my point was less cross border travel because you indicated in your post that it was a hardship for them. Which of course it's not a big deal at all.

[OnTheIce]

Regina Regina:

I think you're drawing on exaggeration and misconceptions of taxation. What exactly is the taxation difference? They are all paid in US funds so what's the difference? I skate with another current NHL in the summer who just made the change from Canada to the US and said there isn't that much difference in the end. Maybe you know different?

Yes, they are paid in US dollars but they are taxed based on the location of the team.

5 million in the US results in 1.7 million paid in tax compared to 2.3 million in Ontario.

Regina Regina:

I skate once a week with 9 or 10 current NHL players along with a bunch of others from the AHL or OHL. So my information and opinion is from them not the news paper or hearsay. I hear them yapping about contracts and endorsements every week.

No my point was less cross border travel because you indicated in your post that it was a hardship for them. Which of course it's not a big deal at all.

I've heard players say otherwise, that travel is a pain in the ass. I too play with current and former NHL'ers and spent a week-end at a Hockey Canada clinic with many of them last week-end.

[peck420]

OTI,

Can you show how you worked out the taxes?

Every time I check the taxes out, any player in Alberta is paying less in taxes than any player in the US.

Maximum income tax in Alberta is 39% (Fed and Provincial)
Just in federal taxes, US based players are all hitting the 35% mark.

Only 4 NHL teams reside in states that would provide a better marginal tax rate (zero income tax states), but the structure of the US federal tax negates that benefit (paying 28% before Canadians hit 29% and increasing from there).

[Regina]

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

Yes, they are paid in US dollars but they are taxed based on the location of the team.

5 million in the US results in 1.7 million paid in tax compared to 2.3 million in Ontario.

Of course they file taxes in the country they make their living in, just like anyone else. The only difference is that on both sides of the border players are paid in US Funds. But I don't think you have a grasp of the actual taxes paid in each country. Where did you come up with a tax rate of 34% and 46% ?

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

I've heard players say otherwise, that travel is a pain in the ass. I too play with current and former NHL'ers and spent a week-end at a Hockey Canada clinic with many of them last week-end.

Bullshit. Everyone of them knows they're one bad game or bad season away from riding a bus. Most joke about having a bus license.
Speak Out Clinic?