[PostFactum]

[DrCaleb]

Gunnair Gunnair:

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

PostFactum PostFactum:

Plane from Canada arrived 20 minutes ago.

I thought we were sending 20 CF-18's. Hope you like them.

That's what Pravda reported...

It was RT. Same difference though. Is my humour getting too subtle?

[Gunnair]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

Gunnair Gunnair:

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

I thought we were sending 20 CF-18's. Hope you like them.

That's what Pravda reported...

It was RT. Same difference though. Is my humour getting too subtle?

Maybe for some...

[PostFactum]

[DrCaleb]

$1:

Ukrainian forces encircle rebel-held city, talk of truce collapses

(Reuters) - Artillery shells slammed into the outskirts of the Ukrainian city of Donetsk on Sunday as government forces tightened the noose around the rebel-held redoubt and called on pro-Russian separatists to surrender.

To the east of Donetsk, government forces and the separatists were fighting for control of the town of Krasny Luch, a rail and road junction through which Kiev says the rebels are receiving supplies of Russian military equipment.

Talk of a ceasefire, a possibility raised by a separatist leader on Saturday, evaporated as Kiev government forces kept up an offensive to crush the rebels.

Ukrainian military spokesman Andriy Lysenko said if the rebels wanted a ceasefire this meant "raising white flags and putting down their guns".

There would be no truce while the Ukrainian army continued "punitive" military action, the rebels retorted in a statement.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/08/ ... C620140810

[PostFactum]

[DrCaleb]

Here is why I love the Russians. Deny reality, then insert their own version of it.

$1:

Kiev intends to hold up the internationally-supervised Russian humanitarian aid convoy meant for East Ukraine for at least a week, a spokesman for the Ukrainian military said.

Russian humanitarian convoy departs to E. Ukraine (VIDEO)

Ukraine said the time is needed for the International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC), which is contributing to the Moscow-initiated mission, to establish where the aid should go in the Ukrainian region engulfed by civil war.

However, Russia’s Emergencies Ministry spokesman, Aleksandr Dobryshevsky, said that the destination for the Russian humanitarian aid will be determined jointly by Moscow’s representatives, the International Committee of the Red Cross and the Ukrainian government.

http://rt.com/news/179740-humanitarian- ... a-ukraine/

$1:

A convoy of 280 Russian trucks reportedly packed with aid headed for eastern Ukraine on Tuesday, but Kiev said it would only allow the goods through under the close supervision of the international Red Cross.

A Ukrainian security spokesman said the convoy of vehicles was being managed by the Russian army and that it could not be allowed into the country.

The humanitarian crisis provoked by fighting between government troops and pro-Russian separatist militants in eastern Ukraine has reached a critical point in recent days and heightened the urgent need for intervention.

But Ukraine and the West have voiced concerns that Russia could use the aid initiative as a cover for sending troops into separatist-held territory.

"This convoy is not a certified convoy. It is not certified by the International Committee of the Red Cross," said Andriy Lysenko, a spokesman for Ukraine's National Security and Defense Council. "No military structures have the right to escort humanitarian aid convoys, especially into another state."

http://www.businessweek.com/ap/2014-08- ... or-ukraine

[BartSimpson]

Winnipegger Winnipegger:

But that aircraft is back in service, so not one of the 18 lost. So first of all, 17 were written off, not 20. And the aircraft written off have been scavenged for parts, so don't expect they'll ever fly again. I wish they could be repaired, upgraded, and put back in inventory; but have no idea what that would take. They've been used as a source of spare parts so long that I expect they all are sad relics that can't fly.

It would not surprise me if Canada's friends at Davis-Monthan AFB are supplying you guys with all the spares you need to get those planes operational. It's not like we don't have some sitting around.



(It also would not surprise me if RCAF roundels are being painted on operational US aircraft that will be transferred to Ukraine as Canadian.)

[Jabberwalker]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

Winnipegger Winnipegger:

But that aircraft is back in service, so not one of the 18 lost. So first of all, 17 were written off, not 20. And the aircraft written off have been scavenged for parts, so don't expect they'll ever fly again. I wish they could be repaired, upgraded, and put back in inventory; but have no idea what that would take. They've been used as a source of spare parts so long that I expect they all are sad relics that can't fly.

It would not surprise me if Canada's friends at Davis-Monthan AFB are supplying you guys with all the spares you need to get those planes operational. It's not like we don't have some sitting around.



(It also would not surprise me if RCAF roundels are being painted on operational US aircraft that will be transferred to Ukraine as Canadian.)

Why fix up the old ones.? Just go to the desert, pick twenty new ones and paint out the stars on the side ...

Oh, an don't forget to remove the tail hooks while you're at it.

[Winnipegger]

Canadian fighters do have tail hooks. One RCAF pilot at a public talk said some northern airports with short runways that actually have arrestor cables. And they fold the wings to park at northern airports that have limited tarmac. But CF-18 aircraft have instruments calibrated in metric.

[BartSimpson]

Winnipegger Winnipegger:

Canadian fighters do have tail hooks. One RCAF pilot at a public talk said some northern airports with short runways that actually have arrestor cables.

Interesting things you learn on the net!

[Winnipegger]

CBC producer revisits Ukraine to explore conflict
CBC producer Alex Shprintsen grew up in Ukraine. He recently returned to explore the country's past and current conflicts.
http://www.cbc.ca/player/News/TV%20Shows/The%20National/ID/2487330867/

[BartSimpson]

Well, sh*t. The Russians have commenced the invasion of Ukraine.

http://www.businessinsider.com/russian- ... ine-2014-8

Give it what? A month for the 'election' to occur and they'll annex right up to the Dneiper if not the whole country.

[Winnipegger]

Business Insider Business Insider:

So @RolandOliphant and I just saw a column of APCs and vehicles with official Russian military plates cross border into Ukraine.
— Shaun Walker (@shaunwalker7) August 14, 2014

Erm ok so this isn't humanitarian aid. Column of over 20 APCs, 10km from the Ukraine border, and heading closer pic.twitter.com/OMvJmHzsx1
— Shaun Walker (@shaunwalker7) August 14, 2014

The APCs had been traveling with a humanitarian aid convoy of unmarked white trucks that Vladimir Putin's government was sending to Ukraine. Military vehicles, including anti-aircraft weapons and helicopters, started driving alongside the convoy earlier on Thursday.

Most of the fleet of more than 262 vehicles within the humanitarian convoy, including about 200 trucks carrying aid, stopped 15 miles from the border of Ukraine's rebel-held eastern region of Luhansk. The convoy had been sent to go through a Ukrainian-held border crossing by the city of Kharkhiv, but it unexpectedly changed course and instead stopped by the separatist-held Izvaryne border crossing.

The Izvaryne crossing is likely the site that the Russians used to transport the BUK missile battery which was used to down MH17 in July into Ukraine. After the humanitarian convoy stopped by Izvaryne, the fleet of APCs continued into Ukraine after nightfall.

To clarify. APC column separate to humanitarian convoy, which has halted. Is moving V close to border. But not size of proper invasion force
— Shaun Walker (@shaunwalker7) August 14, 2014

Didn't even turn off their headlights. Saw Russian military plates on support vehicles, but no markings I could make out on APCs.
— Roland Oliphant (@RolandOliphant) August 14, 2014

Walker does not believe that the APCs constitute an invasion force. Instead, this movement of Russian forces into Ukraine could be a continuation of an ongoing Russian policy along the border, where Moscow has constantly pushed the limits of Ukrainian sovereignty in its attempts to aid pro-Russian separatists inside the country.

NB I don't think this was "the invasion" proper. This is probably what has been happening for a while. Extraordinary to see it though.
— Shaun Walker (@shaunwalker7) August 14, 2014

Russia could be using the APCs in order to create supply corridors throughout eastern Ukraine. The Ukrainian military had been encircling the key separatist-held cities of Luhansk and Donetsk in an effort to cut off the flow of supplies to the rebels. By opening a supply corridor to these cities, Russia could continue to arm the separatists with minimal direct military involvement.

Sounds like the reporter got excited, and scared. Then the APCs didn't cross the border. No anti-aircraft weapons, no helicopters. They haven't invaded yet. But what do the trucks contain?

You know, one military strategy is to siege east Ukraine. That would require cutting off all humanitarian aid. Most especially, no generators, no electricity, no fuel. When winter arrives, those in east Ukraine will have to surrender. Not pleasant, but neither is artillery.

[DrCaleb]

Winnipegger Winnipegger:

Sounds like the reporter got excited, and scared. Then the APCs didn't cross the border. No anti-aircraft weapons, no helicopters. They haven't invaded yet. But what do the trucks contain?

$1:

A column of armoured vehicles and military trucks crossed the border from Russia into Ukraine on Thursday night, in the first confirmed sighting of such an incident by Western journalists.

A separate, larger convoy of around 270 Russian trucks, which Moscow claims is carrying aid, rumbled to a halt just short of the border on Thursday night, while in east Ukraine, shells hit the centre of rebel-held Donetsk for the first time.

The Telegraph witnessed a column of vehicles including both armoured personal carriers and soft-skinned lorries crossing into Ukraine at an obscure border crossing near the Russian town of Donetsk shortly before 10pm local time.

The Ukrainian and Western governments have long accused Russia of filtering arms and men across the border to fuel the separatist insurgency in Ukraine's Donetsk and Luhansk regions, but such an incident has never before been witnessed by Western journalists.

The convoy, which included at least 23 vehicles, appeared to be waiting until sunset near a refugee camp just outside Donetsk, before moving towards the crossing without turning off headlights or making any other attempt to conceal itself.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... raine.html

Sounds like they used the 'aid' trucks as a cover for more reinforcements and ammo.