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PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 5:49 pm
 


BeaverFever BeaverFever:
I guess the difference is if your town council wasn’t accountable, you would consider it a matter only for citizens if your town, and you would consider to be nobody else’s business.


No I wouldn't. If other levels of government are transferring money to my town council then I'd expect they would have a perfect interest in whether that money was being spent correctly.

Besides, the local citizens don't have access either.


$1:
Also we’re talking about basic necessities here. One of the FN communities in question has been under a boil water advisory for OVER TWENTY YEARS. The feds built a substandard water treatment plant in ‘93 and it broke down in ‘95 and was never repaired.


Really? Or did the feds build a perfectly adequate water treatment plant, the local council hired their drunken brother in law to run it, and he broke it?

Tell, were their problems similar to this?


http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/thunder-b ... -1.3563110


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 5:54 pm
 


All anyone needs to do is to read enough of Shep's incredibly depressing posts about teaching on the reserve. All it takes to wipe out all that work and effort to help those Natives and Metis who actually want to do better for themselves is for a handful of malicious assholes to be given free license over the entire place by the indifferent to wreck and ruin every bit of progress possible for everybody else that lives there. And for that particular problem there is no cure.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 7:18 pm
 


That's what some dope dealing punks on a local rez thought too.
Then the Chief stood up from his lawnchair and worked them over with a baseball bat while a couple others shot the shit out of their truck.
And at the big rez, a posse forcibly removed everyone from a crackhouse and invited the town's volunteer fire dept to an impromptu 'fire training session'.
They now rip down all old abandoned houses.
You make the same mistake you accuse 'white liberals' of, assuming they're helpless.

Now would you like to visit and use the outdoor skating rink on the rez, we do because the town's got 3X the population and can't afford one. Or buy smokes late at night at their store where they didn't need a "Grant's Law" to leave one person working alone at night and $1 billion of Korporate lobbyists to gut it?
FFS you see some negatives and all of you quote them as "the norm"?


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 8:17 pm
 


Vbeacher Vbeacher:
BeaverFever BeaverFever:
I guess the difference is if your town council wasn’t accountable, you would consider it a matter only for citizens if your town, and you would consider to be nobody else’s business.


$1:
No I wouldn't. If other levels of government are transferring money to my town council then I'd expect they would have a perfect interest in whether that money was being spent correctly.


I doubt you’re so committed to fiscal responsibility and public administration that you would let these officials say about your town and your family “I don’t care how many children have to die!”


$1:
Also we’re talking about basic necessities here. One of the FN communities in question has been under a boil water advisory for OVER TWENTY YEARS. The feds built a substandard water treatment plant in ‘93 and it broke down in ‘95 and was never repaired.


$1:
Really? Or did the feds build a perfectly adequate water treatment plant, the local council hired their drunken brother in law to run it, and he broke it?


You’re making that accusation about a specific event without any favtual basis. It’s bad enough to repeat racial stereotypes but to falsely claim or assume they were a factor in a specific event when you have absolutely no knowledge of that being the case is really poor form.

$1:
Tell, were their problems similar to this?


http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/thunder-b ... -1.3563110


No, more like this

https://www.google.ca/amp/www.cbc.ca/amp/1.3256929

https://news.vice.com/en_ca/article/xwv ... ter-crisis


http://nationalpost.com/news/politics/g ... serves-pbo


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 11:52 pm
 


BeaverFever BeaverFever:
Freakinoldguy Freakinoldguy:
We expect every level of Gov't to give an account of how they spend our tax dollars so, I think it's a fair expectation that the money given to the Natives in grants should be properly accounted for and if some people consider fiscal accountability for First Nations racism then they'd better give their heads a shake because by their standards every Canadian who is concerned about how their money is being spent could be labelled as a racist.



I guess the difference is if your town council wasn’t accountable, you would consider it a matter only for citizens if your town, and you would consider to be nobody else’s business. You definitely wouldn’t stand for Torotonians or or Wuebeckers sticking their noses in your business and shutting down your water treatment plant just because your town council has sloppy accountability paperwork.

Also we’re talking about basic necessities here. One of the FN communities in question has been under a boil water advisory for OVER TWENTY YEARS. The feds built a substandard water treatment plant in ‘93 and it broke down in ‘95 and was never repaired. I get that issues like nepotism and accountability are important but we’re talking about kids suffering third world diseases here. None of you would tolerate this type of treatment for your town just because your town council had accountability issues.


ROTFL

Nobody is claiming the Natives shouldn't get the help they need but with that payment should come accountability.

And in case you hadn't noticed there's a very large difference between the Toronto City Council and the natives in say, Attawapiskat.

The City Council raises money through taxes and are responsible to the taxpayers of Toronto for how they spend the money and if they receive grants from the Federal Gov't they're still expected to be accountable for how that money is spent.

Now with the Natives it's something completely different. They receive money they haven't paid for in taxes and then, the band Chiefs and Councils either disperse it as they see fit or blow it on themselves, families and friends. So how is that being accountable and saying that they shouldn't have to have some oversight because nobody butts into Toronto's business is just plain wrong.
A native organization that's a key player in a $100-million government housing initiative for aboriginals in British Columbia has been thrown into turmoil by internal scandals.

$1:
Although the acting leadership of the United Native Nations Society says it is conducting "business as usual," the organization -- which represents 90,000 off-reserve aboriginals -- appears to be in a shambles.

Allegations of misappropriation of funds, drug use and sexual misconduct involving some members, have shaken the organization, leading to two audits and internal investigations.

The UNN is a well-established native organization that is an advocacy group for aboriginals in B.C. and which helps deliver federal and provincial social programs. It is a key player in government initiatives that provide housing, educational and work-training programs.

George HoLem, the president, and Wayne Clark, the vice-president, were fired after directors of the board alleged financial abuses. Several key staff members have also been dismissed.


https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/na ... cle978123/

$1:
The Chief of a B.C. First Nation is in hot water after his salary was made public by a new federal law requiring First Nations to reveal the earnings of their chiefs and councillors.

The financial disclosure for the Kwikwetlem First Nation in Coquitlam shows that Chief Ron Giesbrecht received more than $914,000 last year plus another $16,000 in expenses.

Giesbrecht’s reserve has a total of 81 people registered, but only 35 people actually reside there.


https://globalnews.ca/news/1486024/docu ... in-salary/

Do you want me to continue to point out cases where oversight should have been applied to the tax dollars these Natives received or are you going to continue defending the practice of giving away millions of taxpayers dollars with no accountability?


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 5:12 am
 


Well where corruption or geaft is at hand it should be addressed but denying a water treatment plant to band in Ontario because they are the same “race” as an overpaid Chief in BC isn’t right.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 5:37 am
 


BeaverFever BeaverFever:
Well where corruption or geaft is at hand it should be addressed


Really. :roll:
And just how would you like to discover the corruption and graft
without having some accountability to oversee the money ?


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 10:20 am
 


Freakinoldguy Freakinoldguy:


Nobody is claiming the Natives shouldn't get the help they need but with that payment should come accountability.


It's not the help they need, it's the rights and title they have. The money sent by the feds is just a pittance to justify Canada's continuing refusal to live up to its own laws and sign treaties with First Nations recognizing their rights and title to the land.

That should include direct royalties from, say, mining operations on indigenous land. It should include free, prior, informed consent for any activities on their lands, as Canada committed to when they signed the UN Declaration for the Rights of Indigenous People.

The older generation stole the babies of the Indians from their mothers arms and sent them death, disease and abuse at residential schools and to white families, and actively sought to destroy their culture and now sits around and whines about the problems the Indians cause them. Best thing the old timers can do, if they can't muster any shame for their actions, is to just shut the fuck up and walk away.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 11:31 am
 


Zipperfish Zipperfish:
Freakinoldguy Freakinoldguy:


Nobody is claiming the Natives shouldn't get the help they need but with that payment should come accountability.


It's not the help they need, it's the rights and title they have. The money sent by the feds is just a pittance to justify Canada's continuing refusal to live up to its own laws and sign treaties with First Nations recognizing their rights and title to the land.

That should include direct royalties from, say, mining operations on indigenous land. It should include free, prior, informed consent for any activities on their lands, as Canada committed to when they signed the UN Declaration for the Rights of Indigenous People.

The older generation stole the babies of the Indians from their mothers arms and sent them death, disease and abuse at residential schools and to white families, and actively sought to destroy their culture and now sits around and whines about the problems the Indians cause them. Best thing the old timers can do, if they can't muster any shame for their actions, is to just shut the fuck up and walk away.


Sorry to be harsh, but so what?

How does all of that relate to the current conditions on many of the reserves?

It's not a lack of money. It's not a lack of resources and none of the land claims or apologies for the residential school tragedy will do anything to improve the current conditions.

I'm sorry, but it's time to move on, stop blaming everyone else and get to work.

Mark my words, this current inquiry into missing and murdered Aboriginal Women, despite the years it will take the thousnads of hours poured into it...Natives will reject the findings if there's even a HINT of blame laid at fellow Aboriginals, even if it's true.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 11:54 am
 


Coach85 Coach85:
Sorry to be harsh, but so what?

How does all of that relate to the current conditions on many of the reserves?

It's not a lack of money. It's not a lack of resources and none of the land claims or apologies for the residential school tragedy will do anything to improve the current conditions.

I'm sorry, but it's time to move on, stop blaming everyone else and get to work.

Mark my words, this current inquiry into missing and murdered Aboriginal Women, despite the years it will take the thousnads of hours poured into it...Natives will reject the findings if there's even a HINT of blame laid at fellow Aboriginals, even if it's true.


Well, you can say "So what?" but Canada can't. Canada is an ongoing entity since 1867; it can't just wash its hands and say "Well, that was then, this is now." It has to honour its legal and treaty commitments.

And I think its ludicrous to say the various depredations practiced by Canada on indigenous people are somehow divorced from the socio-political state of reserves today.

It is indeed time to move on and give indigenous peoples the rights and titles they are entitled to. I think this will improve the lives of indigenous peoples and the relationship between Canada and indigenous peoples.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 12:00 pm
 


Zipperfish Zipperfish:
the rights and titles


When are you signing over your house, hypocrite ?


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 12:09 pm
 


Zipperfish Zipperfish:
I think this will improve the lives of indigenous peoples and the relationship between Canada and indigenous peoples.


How so?


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 12:13 pm
 


martin14 martin14:
Zipperfish Zipperfish:
the rights and titles


When are you signing over your house, hypocrite ?


Calling me a hypocrite doesn't change the facts on the ground. Aboriginal rights and title exist--in the Constitution, and as declared repeatedly by the Supreme Court and by virtue of Canada's signing of the UN Declaration for the Rights of Indigenous Peoples.

Canada, as a nation of law, must uphold these.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 12:16 pm
 


Zipperfish Zipperfish:
martin14 martin14:
Zipperfish Zipperfish:
the rights and titles


When are you signing over your house, hypocrite ?


Calling me a hypocrite doesn't change the facts on the ground. Aboriginal rights and title exist--in the Constitution, and as declared repeatedly by the Supreme Court and by virtue of Canada's signing of the UN Declaration for the Rights of Indigenous Peoples.

Canada, as a nation of law, must uphold these.



Keep squatting, bitch.

Your own hypocrisy with your drive by shitposting only makes you even more stupid than usual.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 12:28 pm
 


Coach85 Coach85:
Zipperfish Zipperfish:
I think this will improve the lives of indigenous peoples and the relationship between Canada and indigenous peoples.


How so?


Because the First Nations would have control over their lands. They would be free to oversee those lands as they see fit, subject to the Constitution and Criminal Code of Canada, and that would provide, to borrow the American phrase, the agency for them to pursue their happiness. You break a culture of dependence. You make self-sufficiency possible.


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