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PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2019 9:32 am
 


llama66 llama66:
Fuck the BQ. They're a bunch of assholes.


I've no idea. I'll take your word for it.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2019 10:02 am
 


stratos stratos:
llama66 llama66:
Fuck the BQ. They're a bunch of assholes.


I've no idea. I'll take your word for it.


The Bloc Quebecois were formed specifically to remove Quebec from Canada.

But they are perfectly fine with their jobs in the House, and being paid by the People of Canada.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2019 10:07 am
 


Ranked ballot.

PR and MMP and the like just result in coalition governments that cause a gong-show of compromises and fringe agendas that please nobody and piss off everybody.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2019 10:12 am
 


Actually, coalition governments make me happy. Then no one has enough power to truly fuck anything up. Then they have to do what they were elected to do - work together for the good of the country.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2019 10:40 am
 


DrCaleb DrCaleb:
Actually, coalition governments make me happy. Then no one has enough power to truly fuck anything up. Then they have to do what they were elected to do - work together for the good of the country.


Coalitions can be useful in an SNC-Lavalin type situation (if the numbers permitted) as the smaller parties may withdraw their support unless firm action is taken. Canadians have to learn to play together, share their toys and get over their weird antipathy to coalitions.


Last edited by Sunnyways on Sat Nov 16, 2019 5:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2019 11:42 am
 


Tricks Tricks:
BartSimpson BartSimpson:
Sunnyways Sunnyways:
How often do we have to have this silly conversation in Canada? That’s not how the system works.


We get the same version of this bullshit every four years when some ignoramus thinks the popular vote should outweigh the state-by-state electoral vote.

Pretty weird to have it every 4 years when it's only happened 5 times.


It comes up even if the winner gets a clear majority.

If (Insert any name here) gets a landslide majority next year and carries all fifty states there will still be some ignorant fucktard(s) who will want to get rid of the electoral college. :|


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2019 12:21 pm
 


Sunnyways Sunnyways:
DrCaleb DrCaleb:
Actually, coalition governments make me happy. Then no one has enough power to truly fuck anything up. Then they have to do what they were elected to do - work together for the good of the country.


Coalitions can be useful in an SNC-Lavalin situation where the smaller parties may withdraw their support unless firm action is taken. Canadians have to learn to play together, share their toys and get over their weird antipathy to coalitions.


The problem is they fundamentally disagree about what’s good for the country. Some think zero abortions even in cases of incest and rape and even including bans on morning after pills is “for the good of the country”. What’s the compromise. a total ban on even days of the month and unfettered access on odd number days? Compromise for the sake of compromise is not leadership and it’s not governing. Plus the balance of power can sometimes fall to a tiny fringe party who can join or leave a coalition in order to advance its own agenda. Do you think the Islamic Party of Ontario is overly concerned about the good of the country?

It’ also erodes accountability because in coalition governments nobody’s really in charge and leaders have the built-in excuse for weak ineffective policy by saying “this is the best deal I could get”

As for SNC, the system worked. Trudeau suffered humiliating losses and now runs a minority government where he needs the consent of at least one other party to stay in power. At any time the opposition could put forth a vote if non-confidence and trigger an election if approved, which also happens if they vote down any budget or the speech from the throne


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2019 1:03 pm
 


If people think coalitions are great allow me to harken back to Italy from the 60's to the 80's. Nobody could form a gov't so the populace was going to the polls every couple of months and the entire country stagnated financially for decades while it literally broke itself apart and into right and left factions hell bent on creating a civil war.

So ya, i'll pass on minority gov'ts because the warm fuzzy feeling about having to work together is usually precluded by the fact that parties with no mandate to lead end up making policy because someone always wants to stay in power.

Unfortunately for us the "no mandate to lead" party is the bloc who are hell bent on destroying Canada in order to achieve their ultimate goal of separation. So enjoy the ride because it's going to get one fuck of alot worse than it did with just one Quebec narcissist running the show.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2019 1:08 pm
 


But look at Stephen Harper, who almost went the full 4 years with a Minority Government; and still managed to pass lots of legislation the opposition didn't like.

Minorities can work.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2019 1:22 pm
 


Freakinoldguy Freakinoldguy:

Unfortunately for us the "no mandate to lead" party is the bloc who are hell bent on destroying Canada in order to achieve their ultimate goal of separation. So enjoy the ride because it's going to get one fuck of alot worse than it did with just one Quebec narcissist running the show.

I don’t know about that anymore. Seems like Scheer and the Conservatives are also threatening to break up the country unless they get what they want.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2019 2:23 pm
 


fifeboy fifeboy:
Freakinoldguy Freakinoldguy:

Unfortunately for us the "no mandate to lead" party is the bloc who are hell bent on destroying Canada in order to achieve their ultimate goal of separation. So enjoy the ride because it's going to get one fuck of alot worse than it did with just one Quebec narcissist running the show.

I don’t know about that anymore. Seems like Scheer and the Conservatives are also threatening to break up the country unless they get what they want.


That's never happened in Canada before, has it?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/ ... f93619256/


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2019 9:57 pm
 


DrCaleb DrCaleb:
But look at Stephen Harper, who almost went the full 4 years with a Minority Government; and still managed to pass lots of legislation the opposition didn't like.

Minorities can work.


Only when they're allowed to act like a majority which is something that I don't see happening this time.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2019 10:00 pm
 


fifeboy fifeboy:
Freakinoldguy Freakinoldguy:

Unfortunately for us the "no mandate to lead" party is the bloc who are hell bent on destroying Canada in order to achieve their ultimate goal of separation. So enjoy the ride because it's going to get one fuck of alot worse than it did with just one Quebec narcissist running the show.

I don’t know about that anymore. Seems like Scheer and the Conservatives are also threatening to break up the country unless they get what they want.


I don't think they want all that much. A pipeline or two, fair and equitable equalization and some respect for western Canada should about do it.

But given the Bloc's latest anti western rant that isn't likely to happen and if it doesn't you can look at the real dividers of Canada and none of them are wearing Conservative blue.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2019 11:26 pm
 


DrCaleb DrCaleb:
Actually, coalition governments make me happy. Then no one has enough power to truly fuck anything up. Then they have to do what they were elected to do - work together for the good of the country.



Italy called, they said you have no idea what you are talking about. :lol:


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2019 9:13 am
 


BeaverFever BeaverFever:
Sunnyways Sunnyways:
DrCaleb DrCaleb:
Actually, coalition governments make me happy. Then no one has enough power to truly fuck anything up. Then they have to do what they were elected to do - work together for the good of the country.


Coalitions can be useful in an SNC-Lavalin situation where the smaller parties may withdraw their support unless firm action is taken. Canadians have to learn to play together, share their toys and get over their weird antipathy to coalitions.


The problem is they fundamentally disagree about what’s good for the country. Some think zero abortions even in cases of incest and rape and even including bans on morning after pills is “for the good of the country”. What’s the compromise. a total ban on even days of the month and unfettered access on odd number days? Compromise for the sake of compromise is not leadership and it’s not governing. Plus the balance of power can sometimes fall to a tiny fringe party who can join or leave a coalition in order to advance its own agenda. Do you think the Islamic Party of Ontario is overly concerned about the good of the country?

It’ also erodes accountability because in coalition governments nobody’s really in charge and leaders have the built-in excuse for weak ineffective policy by saying “this is the best deal I could get”

As for SNC, the system worked. Trudeau suffered humiliating losses and now runs a minority government where he needs the consent of at least one other party to stay in power. At any time the opposition could put forth a vote if non-confidence and trigger an election if approved, which also happens if they vote down any budget or the speech from the throne


At the moment we always have minority rule. Frequently, only a third of voters are behind the government. Coalitions represent a much greater fraction of the public and encourage compromise closer to the national consensus. In the current parliament, Trudeau will have to rely on the apathy and penury of the other parties to stay in power.

All political parties are in fact coalitions of people with very different views. Compromise occurs within the parties at the moment. The reality is that many European countries regularly have coalitions and have survived. Germany nearly always has a coalition government. On abortion, I don’t notice much disagreement beyond the Tories and even they are anxious to avoid any debate on the topic.

There is accountability, especially for the smaller parties who can be punished afterwards if they sacrifice their own core principles. The SNC scandal would probably have ended a coalition right there and forced Trudeau to go to the country on that issue where he would probably have paid a higher price than he did.

Who is in charge? The head of government, like now, the person who commands the confidence of the house.

This phobia about coalitions in Canada is a strange aspect of the country, like support for the outdated FPTP voting system over PR. There seems to be a fear of too much democracy. Try them - they’re not that bad.


Last edited by Sunnyways on Sat Nov 16, 2019 5:16 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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