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PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2019 12:53 pm
 


Most of the bands and tribes, inside Alberta anyway, have been in favour of the developments. It's only been a minority of them who are getting boosted by celebrity eco-radicals that are doing the obstruction.

There's nothing that can't be negotiated out. The Natives probably wouldn't even be the most difficult step. The worst one would probably be the national debt because Kenney, or whoever else is premier when it happens, needs to draw a line in the sand and say that because Albertans have contributed three-quarters of a trillion dollars to the federal treasury since 1970 that we won't be taking ANY of the current debt with us. We paid our share already, and got sweet fuck all out of it terms of anything physical or material. Our time for "sharing" the pain is long over.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2019 12:58 pm
 


DrCaleb DrCaleb:
And speaking of pipelines and Native land, people always form Trudeau as the bad guy for not approving pipelines, but it's the limits of what the Federal Government can do on Native land, and the Tribes themselves that have been fighting the pipelines.


That maybe correct but bills C-48 and C-69 are Trudeau's.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2019 1:04 pm
 


And so was quashing Northern Gateway and doing nothing at all to boost Energy East. The jobs that would have resulted from both those projects meant nothing at all compared to the need to virtue-signal and white-knight for the enviro-radicals.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2019 1:17 pm
 


Thanos Thanos:
And so was quashing Northern Gateway and doing nothing at all to boost Energy East. The jobs that would have resulted from both those projects meant nothing at all compared to the need to virtue-signal and white-knight for the enviro-radicals.


The courts squashed Northern Gateway. Quebec squashed Energy East.

Trudeau decided not to fight those decisions, instead approving TMX and Line 3.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2019 2:08 pm
 


Oh lay off with the facts. Let them have their post election temper tantrum.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2019 2:30 pm
 


In my humble opinion, a Liberal government propped up by the NDP / Green parties is the worst possible outcome for the parries.

They will put the final nail in the energy sector coffin while extracting all the equalization they can.

Pretty sure this is the general feeling out west and the reason for these post election temper tantrums.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2019 2:34 pm
 


:idea:


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2019 2:37 pm
 


DrCaleb DrCaleb:
And speaking of pipelines and Native land, people always form Trudeau as the bad guy for not approving pipelines, but it's the limits of what the Federal Government can do on Native land, and the Tribes themselves that have been fighting the pipelines.


Natives can't stop Federal Projects deemed to be essential to Canada and they've been meaningfully consulted with so once all those criteria are met they have no recourse.

Besides it's not all Tribes opposing the Trans Mountain Pipeline it's just the ones who aren't directly impacted by the pipeline and who want money or are being paid by outside sources to create havoc.

As it stands now every tribe that the Trans Mountain Pipeline passes through has been properly consulted with and have agreed to the project. It's the non direct stakeholders who are continually mounting court challenges that have no merit just to delay the project and unfortunately they're the ones that the Gov't and courts seem to be listening to.

https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/wh ... s-mountain

So to fix this problem all Trudeau has to do is pull the notwithstanding clause out and use it. But that won't happen because he doesn't want the pipeline built and if the Natives were so against this pipeline why the fuck would they bid 6.9 billion to purchase it?

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/ ... -1.5197303

Oh and one more question. Where the fuck are they getting the 6.9 billion to purchase a pipeline anyway? My guess is either tax payers will give them the money meaning we'll pay twice for the pipeline or it's coming from an outside investor like our friends in China but either way when, not if they purchase it, you'll see a much different response to pipelines from them.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2019 2:44 pm
 


Opinion: Why Alberta separatism is the dumbest political movement in Canada today


An article from the Wexit opposition.....

https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/wh ... nada-today


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2019 3:07 pm
 


Albania gave Kosovo port access within 1 year of independence. After Kosovo hummed and hawed for almost a decade in developing their own port...in Albania, Albania gave them access in another port, and reclaimed their original offering...which I believe they are selling to China.

South Sudan has guarantees from Kenya, Uganda, and Ethiopia. Shame their pipeline runs through Sudan. Also a shame that they don't have any real roads to ship goods on, once it actually gets to South Sudan.

When did journalists become so useless?


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2019 3:35 pm
 


All Alberta and Saskatchewan would need was a deal with the US anyway. TMX is necessary but in reality the main customer is and always will be the Americans. Once their own stocks of shale oil begin to decline in the middle of the next decade they'll be a net importer of O&G again, which puts AB & SK back into an advantageous position. And an AB/SK border with the US that no longer has the hoops of the job-killing Ottawa nonsense to jump through would be just a joy to have.

Any western sovereignty wouldn't last that long anyway. The smartest thing to do both fiscally and for protection would be to join up with the US as a territory and eventually statehood. That would provide us with all the necessary constitutional personal protections as well as finally give us, via the very strong American belief in state's rights, some kind of cover from a rapacious and contemptuous federal government.

As far as dream and fantasies go this really isn't a bad one to have. Just the thought of being free from an indifferent Canadian system and no longer being spat on by the Laurentians makes me go all a-giggly 8)


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2019 3:53 pm
 


stratos stratos:
Can they seriously vote to leave Canada


Yep, just like First Nations and cities like Edmonton could just as easily vote to stay in Canada, making Alberta look like a piece of Swiss cheese.

But it's not going to happen. People will bluster and complain, but there is far less support for a true separation than there was in Quebec in 1995. However, there may be support for parts of the 'Alberta firewall'

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alberta_Agenda


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2019 3:55 pm
 


Thanos Thanos:
And so was quashing Northern Gateway and doing nothing at all to boost Energy East. The jobs that would have resulted from both those projects meant nothing at all compared to the need to virtue-signal and white-knight for the enviro-radicals.


The problem with Energy East was that it needed a $10-15 billion refinery built at the end of it so it could achieve the goal of energy independence. Otherwise it was just an export pipeline, which was easy for Quebec to kill.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2019 5:04 pm
 


peck420 peck420:
Robair Robair:
We need a port to ship oil out of...

Canada can't deny an UNCLOS request.

Her sovereignty, literally, relies on it.

Canada would be afforded the luxury of which shipping method they prefer.


Are you sure about that?

I just looked at the UN Convention on the Law of the Sea and I can't find anything that specifies that the ROC would be legally required to allow us to build a pipeline across their landed territory to tidewater. No mention of 'petroleum', and all the mentions of 'pipelines' seem to center on pipelines built in bodies of water or on the continetal shelf, not pipelines built across land. Not to mention that article 79(4) still allows states to set out requirements and regulations for pipelines entering their territory or territorial sea...which means all the things people are complaining about Bill C-69 would still be in play.

Besides that, there'd still be the fact that there's no Treaty with the First Nations who live across much of the territory the pipeline would cross, which could bring the UNDRIP (United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples) into play.

At best, it sounds like we'd have a very tenuous case to bring to the UN for arbitration. I wouldn't fancy our chances...and if we lose, what do we do then?


Last edited by JaredMilne on Wed Oct 23, 2019 7:38 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2019 5:16 pm
 


Thanos Thanos:
Most of the bands and tribes, inside Alberta anyway, have been in favour of the developments. It's only been a minority of them who are getting boosted by celebrity eco-radicals that are doing the obstruction.

There's nothing that can't be negotiated out. The Natives probably wouldn't even be the most difficult step. The worst one would probably be the national debt because Kenney, or whoever else is premier when it happens, needs to draw a line in the sand and say that because Albertans have contributed three-quarters of a trillion dollars to the federal treasury since 1970 that we won't be taking ANY of the current debt with us. We paid our share already, and got sweet fuck all out of it terms of anything physical or material. Our time for "sharing" the pain is long over.


Um, that would only be our base negotiating position, just as Quebec would have laid out its base position in 1995.

I remember how everybody in the ROC, including here in Alberta, were saying Ottawa should 'get tough' with Quebec with a plan B. Why would we get off any easier?

DrCaleb DrCaleb:
Thanos Thanos:
And so was quashing Northern Gateway and doing nothing at all to boost Energy East. The jobs that would have resulted from both those projects meant nothing at all compared to the need to virtue-signal and white-knight for the enviro-radicals.


The courts squashed Northern Gateway. Quebec squashed Energy East.

Trudeau decided not to fight those decisions, instead approving TMX and Line 3.


Fun fact #1: According to the head of the C.D. Howe think tank, basic economics killed Energy East, not Trudeau or Quebec.

Fun fact #2: The President of Irving Oil told the Financial Post that Energy East would not have stopped his company from continuing to import Saudi oil because they like having multiple suppliers.

bootlegga bootlegga:
stratos stratos:
Can they seriously vote to leave Canada


Yep, just like First Nations and cities like Edmonton could just as easily vote to stay in Canada, making Alberta look like a piece of Swiss cheese.


Again, remember Quebec in 1995 and people saying that it could be partitioned if some parts of it wanted to stay part of Canada? Remember how much support there was for that in the ROC?

Why would we get off any easier?


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