[OnTheIce]

Prof_Chomsky Prof_Chomsky:

Well, there have been numerous reports of police putting peaceful, lawful protestors on watch lists, so I would say it may be a necessity in today’s world.

The key issue here is a person's legal rights. If you catch someone in a protest committing a crime with a mask, add a new charge. But don't take away another right, and make some other random act illegal for everyone because they “may” do something bad just because they happen to be in a group.

You need to brush up on your facts before you step to the table.

You're bringing a knife to a gun fight.

[Lemmy]

Prof_Chomsky Prof_Chomsky:

Seems unconstitutional to me. Wearing a mask while perpetrating a crime so you hide your identity is one thing, but banning people from wearing them during lawful activities seems like a police state.

"1. The Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms guarantees the rights and freedoms set out in it subject only to such reasonable limits prescribed by law as can be demonstrably justified in a free and democratic society."

This is another instance where protesters need to take some ownership over their protest. If you're protesting and the guy beside you is wearing a mask, you tell him to take it off and, if he refuses, you take it off him forceably.

[Gunnair]

Lemmy Lemmy:

Prof_Chomsky Prof_Chomsky:

Seems unconstitutional to me. Wearing a mask while perpetrating a crime so you hide your identity is one thing, but banning people from wearing them during lawful activities seems like a police state.

"1. The Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms guarantees the rights and freedoms set out in it subject only to such reasonable limits prescribed by law as can be demonstrably justified in a free and democratic society."

This is another instance where protesters need to take some ownership over their protest. If you're protesting and the guy beside you is wearing a mask, you tell him to take it off and, if he refuses, you take it off him forceably.

Yep. Student leaders have been quite mum about this. Wonder why?

[Lemmy]

Gunnair Gunnair:

Yep. Student leaders have been quite mum about this. Wonder why?

The answer is lack of leadership. Same with the occupy protests and the G20. Think back to peaceful protests in the past. There was leadership. Protests were organized and the leaders were on the ground, directing the protest, directing their generals, controlling the situation. Do you think Martin Luther King would have allowed Alabama bus strikers to wear masks and carry backpacks containing god-knows-what? Of course not. If these recent protests were organized and competently led, we wouldn't be having these discussions.

[Gunnair]

Lemmy Lemmy:

Gunnair Gunnair:

Yep. Student leaders have been quite mum about this. Wonder why?

The answer is lack of leadership. Same with the occupy protests and the G20. Think back to peaceful protests in the past. There was leadership. Protests were organized and the leaders were on the ground, directing the protest, directing their generals, controlling the situation. Do you think Martin Luther King would have allowed Alabama bus strikers to wear masks and carry backpacks containing god-knows-what? Of course not. If protests were organized and competantly led then we wouldn't be having these discussions.

Well, it might be lack of leadership or it might be planned. Let's face it, students walking around making a racket won't accomplish much but throw in some intimidating violence...... Student leadership would have to have their heads thoroughly buried in the sand if they thought for a moment that the Black Block and it's varying cohorts wouldn't crash the party and like teenagers hosting thir first house wrecker when mom and dad are gone, it's a little scary but it maks for a hell of a ride!

[Prof_Chomsky]

Taking part in a protest is legal. As is wearing a ski mask in public.

Taking part in a protest that then changes into a riot is misfortune.

Choosing to take part in the ensuing riot is illegal. Concealing your identity with a mask during a crime is doubly illegal.

We have all the laws we need. Removing people's rights en mass for our "safety" is asinine. And anything which nips away at the publics ability or willingness to speak up or protest is anti democratic. In this age we should be supporting those who speak up not penalizing them.

[PublicAnimalNo9]

Prof_Chomsky Prof_Chomsky:

Taking part in a protest is legal. As is wearing a ski mask in public.

Taking part in a protest that then changes into a riot is misfortune.

Choosing to take part in the ensuing riot is illegal. Concealing your identity with a mask during a crime is doubly illegal.

We have all the laws we need. Removing people's rights en mass for our "safety" is asinine. And anything which nips away at the publics ability or willingness to speak up or protest is anti democratic. In this age we should be supporting those who speak up not penalizing them.

Puh-lease. There is no constitutional right that says you have the right to conceal your face in public. Obviously, there are reasonable reasons for wearing a ski mask in public. It could be a cold winter day. But the middle of summer(G-20) and the month of May aren't exactly chock with bracing cold.
Let's face it, if yer demonstrating peacefully, then there's no need to conceal your identity. Period!

[PluggyRug]

Prof_Chomsky Prof_Chomsky:

Concealing your identity with a mask during a crime is doubly illegal.

We have all the laws we need. Removing people's rights en mass for our "safety" is asinine. And anything which nips away at the publics ability or willingness to speak up or protest is anti democratic. In this age we should be supporting those who speak up not penalizing them.

Double illegality?

That's like saying....if i drive into a wall at 100kph I'll be dead. if I drive into a wall at 200kph I'll be double dead.

I would agree with the last paragraph, however willingness to speak up and protest whist concealing your identity leaves "peaceful protest" behind.

[PostFactum]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

Good. I see no reason to be masked if your intention is peaceful protest. I've been to many protests, and it is my constitutional right to peacefully assemble to protest.

Can't agree. There is always human factor. Of cource, we have rights and blah blah blah. You have a right to gather with people who have a big poster called "My boss is angry bull. We need good treatment." Your boss in the evening is watching TV news and see your face in the crowd. I think he will prepare few tricks for you. And in mask you can do this without any afraid. You do your right, you feel safety.

[EyeBrock]

Yea, the cops at the G20 (those gestapo bastards) were confiscating masks and goggles. It's good to see that they will get charged for that non-constitutional conduct.

Protesters have the right to be masked and wear gear that stops pepper spray from being used on them as they riot. It's in the fuckin' charter man!

[PostFactum]

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

Yea, the cops at the G20 (those gestapo bastards) were confiscating masks and goggles. It's good to see that they will get charged for that non-constitutional conduct.

Protesters have the right to be masked and wear gear that stops pepper spray from being used on them as they riot. It's in the fuckin' charter man!

Yeah, because it's difficult to catch rioter and put his mask down in the police station.

[EyeBrock]

I think something was lost in translation PF!

[PostFactum]

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

I think something was lost in translation PF!

Yeah, because it's difficult to catch a rioter and put his mask down at the police station.

Correct?

[ShepherdsDog]

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

Yea, the cops at the G20 (those gestapo bastards) were confiscating masks and goggles. It's good to see that they will get charged for that non-constitutional conduct.

Protesters have the right to be masked and wear gear that stops pepper spray from being used on them as they riot. It's in the fuckin' charter man!

Well the fucknut bandying the term about has no fucking clue who they were or what they really did under the Nazi regime.

[ShepherdsDog]

Lemmy Lemmy:

Gunnair Gunnair:

Yep. Student leaders have been quite mum about this. Wonder why?

The answer is lack of leadership. Same with the occupy protests and the G20. Think back to peaceful protests in the past. There was leadership. Protests were organized and the leaders were on the ground, directing the protest, directing their generals, controlling the situation. Do you think Martin Luther King would have allowed Alabama bus strikers to wear masks and carry backpacks containing god-knows-what? Of course not. If these recent protests were organized and competently led, we wouldn't be having these discussions.

I remember protesting the GST when Mulroney was in town. Many of my friends were greeting him as they were members of the Young Conservatives Club...mind you so was I, but I had friends who were protesting against the tax and they had beer. we were shooting the shit with a couple local cops I knew, and some of the RCMP who were there too. there was no animosity directed towards the police from the crowd and they were pretty laid back. It was for The Chin, that the boos and catcalls were reserved. After the 'protest' I got tanked.