[Jonny_C]

In order for the Liberals to have a shot, they have to make major inroads in Ontario. It's a sure bet that going into the next election with a reincarnation of McGuinty won't do it for them.

The Ontario electorate is FINALLY tired of being jerked around by McGuinty. Who knows how long it will take to clean up the mess his governments made.

[BartSimpson]

Unsound Unsound:

Wow, I wonder what kind of dirt is about to be revealed...?

My thought, exactly.

[redhatmamma]

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

andyt andyt:

...............

It was a lot different with Harper. He did it to avoid having to resign. That may be too much of distinction for those on the rabid right to draw. Reason isn't their strong point.

That's funny, and McGuinty didn't do it to avoid being found in contempt of Parliament, or to avoid more revelations of dishonesty and hundreds of millions wasted on moving gas plants. etc. etc. etc.

Really,

[PluggyRug]

Didn't know Dalton McGuinty is a Premier, I always thought he was a school master.

[OnTheIce]

Lemmy Lemmy:

So you disagree with McGuinty prorouging Parliament so that he can give in to all of the Conservatives' demands vis-a-vis amending the bill before the legislature to Hudak's satisfaction?

Well, duh!

That's how minority Parliaments work. You don't take your ball and go home when you don't get everything you want. You need a majority to do that. So suck it up or call an election.

[Lemmy]

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

Well, duh!

That's how minority Parliaments work. You don't take your ball and go home when you don't get everything you want. You need a majority to do that. So suck it up or call an election.

You're not too bright, are you? This prorouge is to GIVE THE CONSERVATIVES WHAT THEY WANT. The purpose of the prorogue is to give in to the Conervatives' demands for a broader wage freeze on government employees. This prorouge is something Conservatives WANT. You're not even smart enough to recognize when you've won.

[Jonny_C]

Lemmy Lemmy:

This prorouge is to GIVE THE CONSERVATIVES WHAT THEY WANT. The purpose of the prorogue is to give in to the Conervatives' demands for a broader wage freeze on government employees. This prorouge is something Conservatives WANT.

That's an interesting interpretation . Why would McGuinty do that? What's in it for him and for the Liberals?

[OnTheIce]

Lemmy Lemmy:

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

Well, duh!

That's how minority Parliaments work. You don't take your ball and go home when you don't get everything you want. You need a majority to do that. So suck it up or call an election.

You're not too bright, are you? This prorouge is to GIVE THE CONSERVATIVES WHAT THEY WANT. The purpose of the prorogue is to give in to the Conervatives' demands for a broader wage freeze on government employees. This prorouge is something Conservatives WANT. You're not even smart enough to recognize when you've won.

First, I don`t support Tim Hudak and the Ontario PC`s, let`s get that out of the way.

How does this prorogue get the PC Party what they want?

You can't legislate the wage freeze when the House isn't sitting.

The Liberals now have time to sit down with the unions and try to negotiate a contract rather than it be imposed upon them. Is that what the PC's want? I don't think so.

[OnTheIce]

Jonny_C Jonny_C:

Lemmy Lemmy:

This prorouge is to GIVE THE CONSERVATIVES WHAT THEY WANT. The purpose of the prorogue is to give in to the Conervatives' demands for a broader wage freeze on government employees. This prorouge is something Conservatives WANT.

That's an interesting interpretation . Why would McGuinty do that? What's in it for him and for the Liberals?

It's a laughable assertion that this prorogue is to give Hudak what he wants. Makes no sense at all.

This was to halt everything that would have ruined his "legacy".

[Lemmy]

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

First, I don`t support Tim Hudak and the Ontario PC`s, let`s get that out of the way.

Sure you don't.

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

How does this prorogue get the PC Party what they want?

Because that's why it was done: to negotiate with PCs on amending the teachers' bill to freeze all wages.

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

You can't legislate the wage freeze when the House isn't sitting.

Because they need to work out the details of the legislation.

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

The Liberals now have time to sit down with the unions and try to negotiate a contract rather than it be imposed upon them. Is that what the PC's want? I don't think so.

Sure it's what the PCs want. They want wage freezes. Are you suggesting the Conservatives would rather have wage freezes imposed by legislation rather than agreement? That would imply the Conservatives would prefer that the same outcome come from conflict rather than consent (which is likely true, but doesn't make the Conservatives look very good).

You guys (oh, sorry, I forgot you're not a PCer) are pissy 'cause you were criticized for the Federal prorogue a couple of years ago so now you're just DYING to turn around and criticize the Liberals for this one. But you don't get that BOTH prorogues are for the Conservatives' benefit. Dumb, dumb, dumb.

[Lemmy]

Jonny_C Jonny_C:

That's an interesting interpretation . Why would McGuinty do that? What's in it for him and for the Liberals?

Distance. By having Dalton fall on the wage-freeze handgrenade, it clears the table for the next leader.

[Jonny_C]

Lemmy Lemmy:

Jonny_C Jonny_C:

That's an interesting interpretation . Why would McGuinty do that? What's in it for him and for the Liberals?

Distance. By having Dalton fall on the wage-freeze handgrenade, it clears the table for the next leader.

What I was getting at is that political parties are not in the business of doing their opponents favours.

$1:

BOTH prorogues are for the Conservatives' benefit.

Even if the Conservatives benefit from this one thing (which is not clearly so), McGuinty had multiple reasons, personal and strategic, for his resignation and prorogue, and they all had to do with his advantage and Liberal advantage.

Characterizing the whole thing as a gift to the Conservatives is a little odd.

[Lemmy]

Jonny_C Jonny_C:

What I was getting at is that political parties are not in the business of doing their opponents favours.

There's nothing else they can do at this point. When you're licked, you're licked.

Jonny_C Jonny_C:

Even if the Conservatives benefit from this one thing (which is not clearly so), McGuinty had multiple reasons, personal and strategic, for his resignation and prorogue, and they all had to do with his advantage and Liberal advantage.

Characterizing the whole thing as a gift to the Conservatives is a little odd.

But that's exactly what it is. It clearly IS in the Conservatives' benefit. It's an admission that what the Conservatives wanted (wage freezes) must happen. So by having Dalton give in to that, he distances the new leader from a policy that will greatly anger the public service. The prorogue is stragegically advantageous to the Liberal party, of course, but it's strageically important because it places the blame at the feet of the outgoing leader rather than the new face. In terms of long-term strategy, yes, it's for Liberal advantage, but it's to the Conservatives' benefit in that they're getting their policy put into law, which is a hell of a victory when you're the opposition party. Go ask teachers or public service employees whether this is good for the Liberals or the Conservatives.

[OnTheIce]

Lemmy Lemmy:

Sure you don't.

Yea, because everyone who's ever voted Conservative must always vote for and support Conservatives? Laughable.

I have never supported Tim Hudak. Not now, not ever. I don't think he's a good leader nor do I think the Ontario PC Party is worth voting for at this time. I voiced the same concern during the last campaign.

Lemmy Lemmy:

Because that's why it was done: to negotiate with PCs on amending the teachers' bill to freeze all wages.

Because they need to work out the details of the legislation.

They didn't have to prorogue the House to do so. This prorogation had nothing to do with wage freezes and everything to do with getting out before shit hit the fan.

Your assertion makes no sense....prorogue the House while resigning is going to lead to a new leader and a spring election. They can work on details all they want but can't do shit about it if the House isn't sitting and with the pending election, it'll all goto waste anyways.

Lemmy Lemmy:

Dumb, dumb, dumb.

Coming from the guy that thinks McGuinty doing this wasn't self-serving is in a whole separate class of "dumb".

[Lemmy]

Proroguing means 100+ bills that the Liberals tabled are now defunct. Who won? Who got what they wanted out of this, the Liberals or the Conservatives?