[Jabberwalker]

... a good end for a lousy human being. I just hope that he didn't personally cause any more misery on his way to his virgins but he almost certainly did, I would imagine. I have no problem at all with self-destructing Jihadists as long as they do it on the other side of the Earth, somewhere and leave the innocent alone.

[Brenda]

Because each and everyone 'on the other side of the Earth, somewhere' they take with them, are guilty, right?

[Jabberwalker]

Brenda Brenda:

Because each and everyone 'on the other side of the Earth, somewhere' they take with them, are guilty, right?

No, not necessarily but we build our cultures collectively. Those who come from cultures where women are chattels, the poor and powerless are that way because god wills it so, the strongest thug gets to rule because god wills it so, foreigners are devils as are those who worship in a different manner ... they get what they deserve for failing to evolve when the rest of the World already has done so.

[andyt]

Jabberwalker Jabberwalker:

Brenda Brenda:

Because each and everyone 'on the other side of the Earth, somewhere' they take with them, are guilty, right?

No, not necessarily but we build our cultures collectively. Those who come from cultures... the poor and powerless are that way because god wills it so,

VS the poor are that way because they're lazy or stupid.

Pretty bent view that people in the middle east deserve to die just because their culture doesn't measure up to your standards.

[Jabberwalker]

$1:

Pretty bent view that people in the middle east deserve to die just because their culture doesn't measure up to your standards.

In the horse-race of civilizations, they have come in fourth. They've have skipped over of the great human achievements of the last 500 years that lead us to a far less violent and far more egalitarian place. Do you expect us to save them from themselves? (see: rationale for invading Iraq, Libya).

[Brenda]

Jabberwalker Jabberwalker:

Brenda Brenda:

Because each and everyone 'on the other side of the Earth, somewhere' they take with them, are guilty, right?

No, not necessarily but we build our cultures collectively. Those who come from cultures where women are chattels, the poor and powerless are that way because god wills it so, the strongest thug gets to rule because god wills it so, foreigners are devils as are those who worship in a different manner ... they get what they deserve for failing to evolve when the rest of the World already has done so.

You're talking about the USA now, right?

[andyt]

Jabberwalker Jabberwalker:

$1:

Pretty bent view that people in the middle east deserve to die just because their culture doesn't measure up to your standards.

In the horse-race of civilizations, they have come in fourth. They've have skipped over of the great human achievements of the last 500 years that lead us to a far less violent and far more egalitarian place. Do you expect us to save them from themselves? (see: rationale for invading Iraq, Libya).

I expect people from our advanced civilization not shrug their shoulders when people living in those cultures are killed by terrorists because "they deserve it collectively."

[Jabberwalker]

Brenda Brenda:

Jabberwalker Jabberwalker:

Brenda Brenda:

Because each and everyone 'on the other side of the Earth, somewhere' they take with them, are guilty, right?

No, not necessarily but we build our cultures collectively. Those who come from cultures where women are chattels, the poor and powerless are that way because god wills it so, the strongest thug gets to rule because god wills it so, foreigners are devils as are those who worship in a different manner ... they get what they deserve for failing to evolve when the rest of the World already has done so.

You're talking about the USA now, right?

I had that in the back of my mind, as well.

[Jabberwalker]

$1:

I expect people from our advanced civilization not shrug their shoulders when people living in those cultures are killed by terrorists because "they deserve it collectively."

Instead, we call in air strikes, special forces to "make it better" when they slaughter themselves to excess. We shouldn't necessarily "shrug our shoulders" but you must be aware that WE cannot fix their problems. Only THEY can and it is a conceit on our part that we think we can export our values, everywhere.

[andyt]

You're way off tangent to your original statement. You said that the people over there are collectively guilty for creating the society they live in, so if they get killed by a terrorist, well too bad for them. That's a pretty crazy thing to say.

That has nothing to do with us intervening in their fights or not. As Syria shows, there is often no good answer either way, as far as our own interests are concerned and as far as alleviating those people's suffering. That's a totally different question.

[DrCaleb]

Brenda Brenda:

$1:

Dirie was considered a flight risk and he would have been unable to fly out of Canada, sources said. He was on the no-fly list.

Well, that obviously works well.

I think they have it backwards. If people want to go all Jihadi, we should let them. After a terror type conviction, they get put on a list where all they can do is fly there, not back here. Once they renounce their citizenship, we give them a 1 way ticket. Bye! {waves hand}

I think dying for ones beliefs is a noble sacrifice. More radicals should sign up to die in foreign wars.

[Jabberwalker]

$1:

You said that the people over there are collectively guilty for creating the society they live in

... and I stick to that idea. We build the cultures that we deserve. If we are compassionate, we build compassionate institutions. If we are paternalistic thugs, that is the kind of world that we want to have around us. This is neither new nor complex. Our cultures are the sum total of our attitudes to the world.


As Syria shows, there is often no good answer either way,

...a good working example of what I am saying. One group of cutthroats is trying to wipe out another group of cut throats and there is absolutely nothing that we can effectively do about it.

[andyt]

And our cultures create our attitudes to the world we are born into. You're basically doing a version of the Christian idea that all non-Christians go to hell because they didn't accept Jesus as their savior.

[Jabberwalker]

andyt andyt:

And our cultures create our attitudes to the world we are born into. You're basically doing a version of the Christian idea that all non-Christians go to hell because they didn't accept Jesus as their savior.

If I thought that I could make a difference, I would. We've tried throwing money at this sort of thing ... nothing ... just fat Swiss bank accounts. We've sent Peace Keepers all over the World to keep a peace that doesn't exist. Our allies drop bombs on all and sundry believing themselves to be the planet's policemen.
You can't save a people from the outside. The instinct to do so is pure imperialism. It is up to the troubled places of the World to fix themselves because, we simply cannot do it for them. Aside from re-building the totally devastated post-war Japan and Germany, it has never been done ... maybe in Roman times but they were heavy-handed totalitarians and I, personally, don't believe that we will be better off for imposing peace on others by using heavy force. That is what the British Empire was about ... the Middle East was peaceful for a time, but at what cost?

[andyt]

It`s got nothing to do with what we do. As you say, we maybe can`t save them, tho we've sure spent significant amount of time fucking them over, which we could stop. They'll have to do the heavy lifting themselves. That`s no reason to shrug your shoulders when they get killed by a terrorist because `"they deserve it: