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PostPosted: Wed Nov 24, 2004 8:54 am
 


Comment by anon 'Putain' deleted.

Read the FAQ. Play Nice.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2004 9:24 pm
 


I voted for Pres. Bush. It was the correct vote. It seems the problem in Canada is a ill informed population who only entertains themselves or has available leftist news media. It does't serve your nation well to be so mis-guided. The blather here is shallow and boring. It's the same with US liberals. The litnany of problems goes on and on but the soultions from the left are non-existant. John Kerry had no message, no appeal,no plan, and a twinkle in his eye for "old Europe", the UN, socialism, and other anti-American propogandists. Your article is full of untruths and lacks understanding of world geopolitics. Try expanding beyond the deflating ideology of the mentally ill called liberalism.





PostPosted: Sat Nov 27, 2004 2:18 am
 


I've read a lot of opinion and emotion in this thread but not a whole lot of facts. Let me be clear where I'm coming from lest there be no confusion of my bias. I've lived in Savannah Georgia (the deep south) all of my life. I voted against John Kerry not necessarily for Bush. I wish I'd had better choices but John Kerry scared the crap out of me because I did not know from one minute to the next what he stood for and I did not trust him or his party one bit... very opportunistic and willing to say whatever was necessary to win and it scared me that he might run the country the same way. I don't agree with a lot of what Bush does or says but it was the lesser of two evils and I think most of you should realize that is how most Americans who voted for Bush felt. This was no mandate. It was all about choosing what we perceived to be the lesser of two evils and I believe most of us felt that way. We had little choice given the options. At least we know where Bush stands and whether you like him or not(and obviously most of you don't) he is consistent. I was on the fence at times but I finally got tired of the Kerry flip-flop.

So back to the issue of whether Canadians hate Americans or they don't. What difference does it make? Hate is an emotion and often an illogical emotion. America is going to be reviled if for no other reason we are the lone superpower in the world. I've seen comments in this thread indicating how evil and bloody this country has been over the years but I've seen little facts to back up this assertion. Unfortunately when you are the lone superpower, you are constantly being called on and expected to respond when there are issues around the world and this draws criticism. We spend more money per capita to help other countries than any other country in the world. Americans by nature are generous and want what is best for the rest of the world but we get little credit for anything positive that we do. Sure we have events in our history that none of us are proud of such as Viet Nam but had our leaders fought that war and got it over quickly, we would never have seen the slaughter of millions caused by the Khmer Rouge in Cambodia for example but we screwed up, let it drag on and bailed out. We get heat for everything we do and we are an easy target of criticism but ask yourself what kind of world would we have today without an America with a generous good hearted people that have helped many underdogs when they were being overwhelmed by the more powerful. No we are not a perfect nation and we have our share of corrupt politicians but all you folks who want to hate us for the most part don't have a clue of what you are talking about. If you want to use our choice of commander in chief as a reason to hate us and you don't realize that our political system left us little choice then you have your minds closed to reason. All of you criticizing America about our President's choice to go to war with Iraq will probably think differently if that region is peaceful and more democratic 10 years from now. I acknowledge it might not work out that way but and I probably would not have made the same decision but it would be foolish to wait on the corrupt United Nations to do something about the situation in that country. You are simply foolish if you want to allow folks like Koffi Annan to make decisions about world affairs. My God, we had Libya on the committee for human rights and there are many more examples of how corrupt this organization is. We all know now that France and Russia had their hands in the pocket of Sadam Hussein and that is why they blocked us in our effort to get UN approval for the war in Iraq and that is why we and the British and a few other countries with leaders of character are supporting us.

Anyway, hate us if you will and we will go on defending the world, occasionally making mistakes but trying to do what we believe is right. I can also understand that you probably are not very concerned about the prospect of Iran, North Korea and God knows who else get's their hands on nuclear weapons because they will probably not be aimed in your direction.

I always have thought of Canadians as good neighbors and friends and I still feel that way but I also feel that many of them are being misled and have their minds closed to reality. You country is not a likely target for terrorism so you can sit back and relax. We don't have reports of folks trying to sneak across the border from the United States to Canada to blow up the CN Tower but we do have to be concerned that terrorists might be sitting in Montreal or Toronto developing a plan to come to our country with evil intentions. I guess what I'm saying is just try to put yourself in our position and put your prejudice and malice aside before you go criticizing our people.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 27, 2004 3:16 am
 


a NON,

This post feels like deja vu to me. Have you been around with this same comment here of somewhere else on the net? Or do all those who voted for Bush say the same things?

My response to you asking "what kind of world would we have without America? is to ask "what kind of a world would we have if there were no weapons?" I also happen to know that the USA rushes to help countries with their military might only when it is in their own interest, not in just anyone's *best* interest.

I don't think you need to be any more worried about terrorists sitting in Toronto or Montreal waiting to do the USA harm than you do about the ones sitting in the CIA and the Pentagon and all those stink tanks and porta thoughties hangin out around the not so White House. Oh and lets not forget the biggest one of all - the one sitting in the oval office!

I think Canada has been far too good a neighbour for far too long. Why would anyone have anything against us? We let anyone who feels like it kick us around, shit on us, steal whatever resources they want with the help of our wet noodle Prime Ministers and Premiers. But I don't understand why you or others feel we shouldn't have the right to finally get royally ticked off and want to express that! We're completely dysfunctional! Our relationship with the US is an abusive one. The US being the abuser Canada being the enabler. It has to stop. Infact a whole lot of the world has had it with you, not just Canada! Have you been napping? Although, we're still likely the least of your worries. So expect some criticism if you're coming to the Vive site. I don't think anything you or anyone else says at this point is going to change that.





PostPosted: Sat Nov 27, 2004 11:13 pm
 


4CANADA,
I think your response confirmed the first sentence in my post and apparently we can not converse. When you can only react with anger and emotion and no facts then there can be no dialogue and if that is what you want then you can have it. If you think some purpose can be served by getting together with like minds sharing hatred then go for it and see where it gets you. I'll stay out of the fray.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2004 12:38 pm
 


Anon,

Just as an example:

If one person hated you, it would not exactly mean you did anything wrong. But if a few people who have known you and came into your life, hated you then there is a good chance you did something wrong to them. Some faults that you should probably face and apologize for or just continue denying you ever did anything wrong.

Now I don't believe we should show any hatred towards Americans, I know I don't. Hate is a strong word which should to be an emotion amongst us humans. We should love one another. Like Maurie in "Tuesday with Maurie" said before he died. "We must love one another, or die".

Now my point really though that if there was just a small group of people showing hatred towards the U.S it could very well mean its those people's issues, not the U.S. But when you have a movement around the world of people who show hatred towards the U.S. They must have done something wrong. Do they admint to any faults? Not that I know of. Do they admit to any wrong doing? not that I know of.

Now if you were to educate yourself on Leadership, you will quickly learn that Bush has failed on many Leadership qualities. Integrity, Trustworthy. Anyone with Integrity will admit to faults. Bush and his admin having no fault would be false. They still haven't admited to any faults of failing the American people on security.

While they pump more money into projects that the American Scientific Community say's will not work. Even though there is money needed on the ground for security and not in space. Does it make sense that 911 happen in the earth atmosphere yet they want to go and spend trillions in space? does that make any sense?

The fact you don't seem to want to question anything the U.S does, and the fact that you make it seem like the U.S is the only one to know what democracy should be or how things should happen around the world. Gives me the impression of arrogance on your part.

Arrogance is where hatred is born. Why wouldn't it when a country uses its superiority to conquer any country that is inferior. Another thing about leadership is a true leader always goes down for advice and guidance. The United States has only went to itself for guidance. Canadians are wimps instead of Canadians are on to something. Canada is not the only country who the U.S has ignored. Who decides that the U.S has the true plan for peace? Who decides that? Oh yes Bush talks to Jesus I hear.

Kevin

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2004 12:51 pm
 


<p>Anon, <p>I forgot to leave you with this article. I'm not gonna expect this article to do anything for you. As you will probably have your mind closed before you even click the link. <p><a href="http://observer.guardian.co.uk/print/0,3858,4904158-102273,00.html">Bush's dangerous arrogance</a><br><br><p>---<br>War does not determine who is right - only who is left. <br />
--Bertrand Russell <br />



Acoustic Guitar: This machine will kill facist.- Woody Guthrie





PostPosted: Mon Nov 29, 2004 3:13 pm
 


I can see the point of much of what you're saying - however, you are guilty of the same thing that you accuse other posters of: where are the facts in your statements? I understand your opinion and belief that Bush was the "lesser of two evils" - an opinion which I (obviously) don't share; but nonetheless, the fact remains that America is NOT meant to be the world police. I realize that Americans want and arguably, America as a nation, wants what is best for the world. However, America as a nation wants first what is best for itself and THEN what is best for the world, in that order. I'm not saying that's wrong - that's more or less how a country MUST function. But it does mean that unilateral actions such as invasions by one sovereign nation against another cannot be considered acceptable for many reasons, among those the fact that no matter how well-meaning the nation is (and I'm not going to pretend that there may not be SOME good intentions behind the USA's actions) there will always be at least a certain degree of self-interest involved. You argue that allowing "folks like Koffi Annan to make decisions about world affairs" is a bad thing. Arguably, the United Nations is corrupt - no more so than the current US administration. As well, even if the UN does have some flaws, does that mean that it makes sense for the United States to totally discard the the organization's goals of maintaining some form of global peace and co-operation between nations? <br />
<br />
The statements "America is going to be reviled if for no other reason we are the lone superpower in the world" and "when you are the lone superpower, you are constantly being called on and expected to respond when there are issues around the world" cause me some alarm. First of all, that smacks of an accusation of envy, 'it's lonely at the top'. Secondly, I ask you: Did Afghanistan or Iraq call for America to 'liberate' them? There are certainly issues in the world which do require SOMEONE'S attention, but that does not necessarily mean they require the military attention of the United States, nor the financial attention of Halliburton. <br />
As far as facts - one of the links that I included in my article lists just a few of the nations which have grievances against the United States and the reasons for these grievances. Have a look at it again if you'd like: <br />
<br />
<a href="http://www.thestranger.com/2001-09-20/wtc7.html">http://www.thestranger.com/2001-09-20/wtc7.html</a> <br />
<br />
If you need more facts, let me provide you with some... <br />
<br />
Was the Iraq War Pre-Mediated? <br />
<a href="http://www.pnac.info/blog/archives/000032.html">http://www.pnac.info/blog/archives/000032.html</a> <br />
<br />
The (il-or-semi?)legality of the Iraq War: <br />
<a href="http://www.fpri.org/enotes/20030328.americawar.delisle.intllawwariraq.html">http://www.fpri.org/enotes/20030328.americawar.delisle.intllawwariraq.html</a> <br />
<a href="http://dcregistry.com/users/IraqWar/">http://dcregistry.com/users/IraqWar/</a> <br />
<a href="http://www.thenewamerican.com/tna/1999/04-26-99/illegal_war.htm">http://www.thenewamerican.com/tna/1999/04-26-99/illegal_war.htm</a> <br />
<br />
<a href="http://www.warblogging.com/archives/000561.php">http://www.warblogging.com/archives/000561.php</a> <br />
<br />
Corruption?? <br />
<a href="http://www.pnac.info/blog/archives/000042.html">http://www.pnac.info/blog/archives/000042.html</a> <br />
<a href="http://www.konformist.com/911/osama-bush.htm">http://www.konformist.com/911/osama-bush.htm</a> <br />
<a href="http://www.pnac.info/blog/archives/000025.html">http://www.pnac.info/blog/archives/000025.html</a> <br />
<br />
Limits to Free Speech <br />
<a href="http://www.warblogging.com/archives/000655.php">http://www.warblogging.com/archives/000655.php</a> <br />
<br />
Also, the only nation which has ever used nuclear weapons against other human beings is the United States. And the targets were, of course two cities. That action DID end the second World War, however, and I won't pretend that there was not some sense to the decision. There IS blood on everyone's hands, so to speak, when it comes to military actions. However, the USA's military history is long, bloody, and (I would say) overly aggressive. Being the world's lone superpower does not mean that you have a duty to single-handedly deal out 'justice' wherever you see fit. Similarly, when this 'justice' is sought on the basis of outright deception (i.e. absent WMD), the situation is called into even greater question. <br />
<br />
Clearly, as was mentioned here, "we" and "Americans" ARE loaded words, and the term "hate" is far too strong and emotional. I as an individual strongly relate to individual Americans, and I agree with this anonymous poster in saying that "Americans by nature are generous and want what is best for the rest of the world". However, much of what happens that is not "best for the world", but best for America, is not put on display openly for the American people, as it is not a subject of intense patriotic pride to mention that the "generous good hearted people that have helped many underdogs when they were being overwhelmed by the more powerful" did so for their own self-interest. Again, I repeat that THIS is not the offfensive action - the duplicity of casting such actions in the light of altruism is where the problem lies. In the case of Osama Bin Laden as well, providing CIA training to help him and the Saudi Mujahadeen in fighting against the occupying Russian forces in Afganistan was not to assist the beleaguered Mujahadeen so much as to beleaguer the powerful Russians. <br />
<br />
I am disgusted with the current military agenda being pursued by the United States, but the entire point of my article was to express my personal affection for and support of the American people. I don't believe that Canadians are somehow more "enlightened" than Americans, or that I necessarily know better than they do. But the fact of the matter is that sovereign states exist for a reason and international law must be respected - if the United States can violate at will treaties which it has signed (such as the United Nations Charter) what is to stop other nations from doing the same? <br />
<br />
Essentially, I agree with you - the United States, being the lone superpower, NEEDS to set an example for the rest of the world. But violence UNDERMINES the legitimacy of authority more than establishing it. The United States, difficult as it is (and I do not mean that to be sarcastic or a jab - this is not an easy task for ANY nation) must lead by example, demonstrating to other nations the sort of free and democratic society that it is supposed to stand for - not wantonly assaulting other nations to further its own interests while using patriotic rhetoric and alienating the rest of the world. Might does NOT make right. The US is the only superpower, but if it continues to resort to schoolyard bully tactics, it cannot hope to maintain that position of power and leadership. Borders exist for a reason, and should be respected. To defend an attacked nation is one thing - to begin an unprovoked attack for questionable reasons (later determined to be in complete error) is another thing entirely. The United Nations is imperfect, but arguing that it should not exist implicitly suggests that the United States Administration is? Is that the case? I would prefer to have a corrupt group of nations making decisions of world affairs than a single corrupt superpower, acting in its own self interest.





PostPosted: Mon Nov 29, 2004 3:15 pm
 


My apologies - Lothal is Benjamin, to make that clear. I used this account in error.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 29, 2004 3:51 pm
 


Why do you need more than one account?



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Take the Kama Sutra. How many people died from the Kama Sutra as opposed to the Bible? - Frank Zappa


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 29, 2004 4:30 pm
 


Randy,your're exactly right.Its not the people persay,its the voting machine.One vote in the electorate can sway the whole thing,no matter what number of population is being represented.
That whole electronic voting thing is kinda fishy(or Bushy) if you ask me!

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General strike could be coming to a place near you...are you ready? Boycott 2010 Olympics,I don't my grandkids still paying for Campbells soup.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 2004 7:38 am
 


I don't. I originally created Lothal (a false name) and then decided never to use it, and instead signed up using my real name. If you check the stats for the 'Lothal' account, you'll see that the only activity on it are those two posts. Again, my apologies. I accidentally signed in under the wrong account.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 2004 11:00 am
 


The 'Lothal' account has been cancelled - that problem will not reoccur.





PostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 2004 2:02 pm
 


"One of the most obnoxious examples of the doctrine of collective guilt is the annual ritual of Canadian feminists portraying Marc Lepine as representative of all men."

You insult feminists with this statement and obviously know none. This generalization you make is in conflict with your claim. Feminism is not about man-hating. The small vocal minority does not speak for the movement as a whole. Learn about it before you spew off about it.





PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2004 2:32 am
 


If America wants to change the world for the best, it would stop trying to change it, or modify it, or modernize it, or democratize it, or wipe it out. America is not the best example for the world. Get the message ?


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