[Guest]

Then jesse, you might also delete "Dr C"/"Dr caleb", "jesse vanherk"/"jesse", "dl/diogenes", and all similar vive friends etcetera. Dual accounts aren't kosher for anyone, if it's in fact to be applied fairly, eh. Then there are all the others which allow multipronged angles of attack upon unsuspecting visitors who might not totally agree with the local propagandites. What's good for the goose, eh...you all do it...so come clean and be honest for a change...and good luck to you all, in your future endeavors to create fear and loathing, and to spread hatred among mankind...bye, bye...

[Guest]

Must have been "Bent Wookie" coming back to haunt the sacred bat cave, "eh".

[Guest]

I hate FOX
I hate CNN
I hate Bush
I hate Tucker Carlson
I hate Ann Coulter

Do I hate america? HELL NO.

Just because 50% of the voting americans are idiots doesn't mean that the
country itself is bad. I hate right-wing canadians too, but i don't hate my
country.

[sthompson]

Jesse, Dr Caleb, and Diogenes don't have extra user accounts. A doublecheck of our list of registered users just now has confirmed this. The only extra user account ever used by myself and Jesse has been the "Admin" user account, which was the first user account ever created for the site. But it would be obvious to anyone that "Admin" was one of the site admins.

So your accusation that some people, and specifically site admins, sign up for multiple user accounts for some nefarious reason and are unfairly allowed to keep them is totally false and groundless.

---
Now call it extreme if you like, but I propose we hit it hard, and we hit it fast, with a major, and I mean major, leaflet campaign.--Rimmer, Red Dwarf

[sthompson]

For me personally and as founder of this site, no, I definitely don't hate Americans.

It should be said that Americans seem to have a particular post-Sept. 11 obsession with this topic. You'll remember that the question of the day immediately after those attacks was "Why do they hate us?" (Although honest attempts at an answer would just get you painted with the same "America-hating" brush.) And Bush has said that "the terrorists hate our freedom" etc., part of his general rhetorical style of painting issues in good/evil, black/white terms. There is one Canadian, Carolyn Parrish, who has said she "hates those bastards" (ie Americans), but it was not in the context of an official speeche nor even in the House, and by and large I don't think Canadian leaders have framed foreign or domestic policy in terms of "hate".

Part of the problem may be that such simplistic emotional rhetoric does appeal to people and is easy for them to understand. It's also a little more sensationalistic and therefore makes a better headline.

But just using the example of my personal life,
I worked for MoveOn.org before this (U.S. web-based organization) and I know and respect a lot of the progressive work being done in the U.S. (and I respect a lot of Americans). I don't agree with all of them, and I don't agree with a lot of U.S. policy. I don't agree with the neocon point of view and will say so, plus I don't support the Bush administration and I disagree with their positions on many many things. I also don't want to BE an American. Does that mean I hate the U.S.? People have told me so, or accused me of such, repeatedly.

But I also don't agree with a lot of Canadian policy. I don't agree with the treatment of our First Nations and our immigrants. I don't agree with the Martin administration on many things and I certainly don't agree with the Conservative party. There are Canadians like Tom D'aquino and Stephen Harper and Ralph Klein who hold views or advocate policy I find extremely distasteful and sometimes even offensive (eg on deep integration and same sex marriage). But I certainly don't "hate" Canada or Canadians (not even Klein).

I think it is just an easy trap to fall into, and a mark of mental laziness or maybe just a human tendency to be emotional or tribal, that people confuse disagreement with a country's policies (set by a country's government and not all its people) as hatred of that country. It's just as much of a problem when someone accuses someone else of hating a country because they disagree with its policies as when someone actually says "I do hate Americans because I disagree with their policies". Both people are making the same mistake. The problem is that we keep framing disagreement with each other in terms of an emotional response. Can't we, as people and as nations, disagree without "hating" each other?




---
Now call it extreme if you like, but I propose we hit it hard, and we hit it fast, with a major, and I mean major, leaflet campaign.--Rimmer, Red Dwarf

[Guest]

> Can't we, as people and as nations, disagree without "hating" each other?

Apparently not. Canadians = Not Americans.

Hate, Hate, Hate.

Otherwise, Canadians have nothing to do, and no reason to exist!

[Guest]

That's good because we want no part of you either.

[Guest]

This thread should be mandatory reading for first-time visitors of Vive.

I've been to 8 provinces, travelled to several american cities, and backpacked most of Western Europe. I have family in the Netherlands, France and Minnesota. Let me assure you there are good and bad, polite and rude, greedy and generous throughout the western world. A writer that lumps an entire nation of 260m into "they" says more about themselves than their target. It demonstrates how little you know and your willingness to embrace stereotyps. And if you rightly suggest a people are accountable for their leaders...then bring on the judgement of France, Germany, Spain, Turkey, Russia, China, Cuba, the UK and yeah and don't forget Canada. For they have/had their own share of criminals, totalitarian systems, nationalistic media and empires. In fact I would say all of them have can learn something from the U.S, system (gov't and press). And all countries fiercely defend thier nation's interests first. Not just because all politics are local - but because that is the point of a government.

btw: Found these examples in about 30 seconds of reading this thread, but they are typical of the dialogue throughout Vive:

- if Americans could spell "Europe" or even locate it on a map...

- Turns out 3/4 of the planet hates Americans...

- Half the population...supports this administration and choose to live in denial of their attrocities...

- Do I respect them as human beings ? Yes I do but as Americans ? No...

- I'm not defending the Americans I'm saying have(half) of them support that criminal(POTUS)...

Americans need to wake up and realize how they are being lied to...


And on and on and on with similarly brilliant statements.

[Guest]

> everything North and South of them is a voice of reason that prevents the world from falling into total chaos.

Such a pompously stupid statement. You simply *must* be canadian.

[Guest]

Yours was a very interesting tirade. One of the best qualities of Americans is our independence. In other words, despite all the time you wasted on your keyboard, the vast majority of us don't care what Canadians think about us, our electd leaders, or our policies. If we did, we'd be like Canada -- weak and socialist....

[Guest]

It's a wonky 18% who voted Bush.With all the well-documented voting irregularities, it was probably a rigged
election.Major problems with the voting machines, lost
absentee ballots and 8-hour voting line waits.

And Canada doesn't hate Americans, many of us simply
hate the American manifestation of neo-fascist republicanism, and it's oblivious, dogmatic, insane, and
destructive stupor.

[Guest]

I'M AN AMERICAN

i think is idiotic to hate americans because of Bush considering mostly every one i know hates him. so i think your question should read do we hate george bush? and i understand this is a site for canadians but i am american and i certainly dont hate canadians. if you do hate me i can see why but think about it. not all americans agree with the government. and you are racist to think it thats like calling an african american a nigger. i didnt vote for bush!! and my state Massachusetts was a blue state meaning we didnt vote for bush. i am discouraged he is in for another term but r u going to hate me?? if i tried to do the best i could??
i'm an american and i'm proud! so if you want to hate me go ahead but i love speaking with my accent in other countries!!

[Ynot]

Excellent post. I'm personally sick and tired of americans saying "don't hate us hate Bush" ah yeah, as a nation that promotes themselves as the seat of modern democracy,(sorry to repeat but it bears repeating) all actions of their elected governments are ultimately the will of the people therefore, the people are responsible. I have no sympathy for them, especially after they elected bush again. Even though he got what is it? 18% well guess the others didnt bother because they liked what was going on.
My personal Top Ten Reasons to "dis-like" americans:
1. Iraq (oil war)
2. Afghanistan (war of retribution)
3. Treatment of the Palestinian ELECTED government
4. Vietnam
5. Korea
6. Panama
7. Cuba
8. ego-centric
9. "do as we say, not as we do" attitude
10. MAI multilateral agreement on investment (look it up)

I could go on but you get the idea. Please feel free to add to the list.

[Patm]

Hell no, I don't hate Americans.

I hate Bush and his fascist regime. When it comes to Americans themselves, I can hardly hate someone I don't know, now can I?

I have been to the states many times - once as a civilian and too many times to count when I was in the Navy. I met a few American's I didn't like, not a single one I actually hated, and a huge number I got along great with.

Here's a tip - Americans are human beings just like Canadians. Every human is driven by the same basic desires, strengths, and weaknesses: none are perfect. Most try to be basically good people but can be lead to enabling evil by misdirection. As the Nazi's found out, you just have to tell people they are being attacked - make them scared and they will let you "protect" them.

Some people aren't so good, but are not evil. Colin Powel is in this league - he testified before the UN while not actually believing what he was saying. In the end though, it appears he couldn't keep up the charade so he left when he could gracefully do so. If he was truly good, he wouldn't have tried to pass off the Niger documents that everyone spotted as fake even with only cursory examination.

Then there are the Neo-cons like Cheney and Harper and the neo-con-lite's (just as greedy, less killing) like Martin - they are evil, and I hate evil.

[Jeff]

"many of us simply hate the American manifestation of neo-fascist republicanism"

As a Canadian who is about a month away from acquiring his American citizenship (dual status) I have to lol at your inane hyperbole. What a hoot. Yes, the neo-fascists. What a dumbass.