[True-North]

Robair Robair:

That Bush.... a real piece of .

Sorry Roc, apeasment is not my style.

$1:

a real piece of

Wow that's deep.
Sorry Roc,some of us are good neighbors

filter software doesn't allow the word anyway you get the idea

[Rev_Blair]

Some of us are even good enough neighbours to point out when you are making a horrible mistake, Roc. Far better friends than sycophants like Stevie Harper and Paul Martin.

$1:

I'm not saying the world doesn't hates Bush, just that because people protest doesn't mean that a whole country thinks the way the protesters do. Also, you can make polls say whatever you want....

Most of the country, according to a variety of polls, agree with the protestors, Johnny. They may not all agree strongly enough to burn a US, but many of us do.

[True-North]

Andem Andem:

A word of advice to the Americans questioning my statements: Please, for once, look beyond your own borders. The world hates Bush.

No my American friends the all of the world does't feel that way .In all honesty the part of the world with in Canada where I live everyone has nothing but highest regard for you and your President.
After all we're Canadians not hate mongers.

[Johnnybgoodaaaaa]

Rev_Blair Rev_Blair:

Some of us are even good enough neighbours to point out when you are making a horrible mistake, Roc. Far better friends than sycophants like Stevie Harper and Paul Martin.

$1:

I'm not saying the world doesn't hates Bush, just that because people protest doesn't mean that a whole country thinks the way the protesters do. Also, you can make polls say whatever you want....

Most of the country, according to a variety of polls, agree with the protestors, Johnny. They may not all agree strongly enough to burn a US, but many of us do.

I myself don't agree with all of george bush's policies, and probably have some viewpoints in common with the protesters. Although, I think burning US flags and disgracing the US flag is quite immature and paints the protesters bad. What we need to do is show the Conservatives that we can show restraint, and be mature adults about our protest. We have to beat them in debate, and show we have(as much as I hate morals)ethics when it comes to debate and protest. What I think would be a good way to protest would be showing the toll the Iraq war has taken on people, with symbolism of the dead(like in the new york protest)or holding up facts about the war so people can read them, or facts about bush's policies which have failed. What I don't agree with is a bunch of people who look wierd carrying around signs that say "fuck Bush" or "Bush = liar" and disgracing the US flag. What it becomes then is just a hatred parade, not a protest to inform the public and get your message out, unless of course the message is just that they plain hate the US, no matter what the policy is. But that's the thing, they don't just plain hate Americans, according to them, but they hate Bush and his policies, so why not get that message out in a civil way, instead of giving conservatives ammunition to shot at us showing that WE are filled with hate and can't even have a civil protest? Disgracing the US flag doesn't make people listened to anymore than a civil protest, and if anything it just hurts the liberal image...

[Roc]

[quote="Rev_Blair"]Some of us are even good enough neighbours to point out when you are making a horrible mistake, Roc. Far better friends than sycophants like Stevie Harper and Paul Martin.[quote]

I believe there is a distinct difference between pointing out when one is making a mistake versus transcending the line into blantant hatred. I believe this feeling or moral elitism on the part of some Canadians is hurting international relations between the US and Canada.

The Canadian left in all it's arrogance is going about it all wrong.

[Roc]

Andem Andem:

I think you should look around then, just try google and you'll find sufficient arguements of that fact.

I was asking you.

$1:

A word of advice to the Americans questioning my statements: Please, for once, look beyond your own borders. The world hates Bush.

I believe you are misunderstanding the role of president. What are you saying, "...look beyond your borders." What do they do in Canada? Elect someone who has the best interests of Mongolia in mind? Or Canada? It may come as a surprise, but we elect a president based what he is going to do for US not SOMEONE else. I mean really. What do you think a national leader is for?

So I will ask you again. Can you prove the "...world hates Bush," or is this another exaggeration?

[True-North]

Roc Roc:

Rev_Blair Rev_Blair:

Some of us are even good enough neighbours to point out when you are making a horrible mistake, Roc. Far better friends than sycophants like Stevie Harper and Paul Martin.

$1:

I believe there is a distinct difference between pointing out when one is making a mistake versus transcending the line into blantant hatred. I believe this feeling or moral elitism on the part of some Canadians is hurting international relations between the US and Canada.

The Canadian left in all. It's arrogance is going about it all wrong.

Your exactly right man. It’s been that crossing the line stuff that I’ve tried pointing out for some days now.

I'm one Canadian that's got your back and not to stick a knife in it.

[Rev_Blair]

$1:

What we need to do is show the Conservatives that we can show restraint, and be mature adults about our protest. We have to beat them in debate, and show we have(as much as I hate morals)ethics when it comes to debate and protest. What I think would be a good way to protest would be showing the toll the Iraq war has taken on people, with symbolism of the dead(like in the new york protest)or holding up facts about the war so people can read them, or facts about bush's policies which have failed. What I don't agree with is a bunch of people who look wierd carrying around signs that say "fuck Bush" or "Bush = liar" and disgracing the US flag. What it becomes then is just a hatred parade, not a protest to inform the public and get your message out, unless of course the message is just that they plain hate the US, no matter what the policy is. But that's the thing, they don't just plain hate Americans, according to them, but they hate Bush and his policies, so why not get that message out in a civil way, instead of giving conservatives ammunition to shot at us showing that WE are filled with hate and can't even have a civil protest?

It has been a civil protest, Johnny. There has only been one incident of scuffling between police and protestors. There have been speeches. No conservative would come out to debate. Bush refused to meet with Jack Layton and Gilles Duceppe, so there was no chance for discussion between the left and the right.

What you're seeing on the streets of Ottawa is called democracy, Johnny. What you're seeing in the secret meetings and highly controlled press conferences is not democracy.

$1:

I believe there is a distinct difference between pointing out when one is making a mistake versus transcending the line into blantant hatred.

When the mistake is murdering women and children to keep your SUV fueled up, feelings tend to run a little strong.

$1:

I believe this feeling or moral elitism on the part of some Canadians is hurting international relations between the US and Canada.

I believe the corporate lackeys on the far right are destroying my country in their greed and allowing Georgie into this country just furthers their agenda.

$1:

I believe you are misunderstanding the role of president. What are you saying, "...look beyond your borders." What do they do in Canada? Elect someone who has the best interests of Mongolia in mind? Or Canada? It may come as a surprise, but we elect a president based what he is going to do for US not SOMEONE else. I mean really. What do you think a national leader is for?

That ONLY works as long as your actions do not affect those outside of your own borders. The second you step beyond those borders, that whole theory falls apart.

$1:

I'm one Canadian that's got your back and not to stick a knife in it.

He's not a Canadian, Roc...don't believe him. The little oil patch separatist showed up here proclaiming that he was from the "Free Republic of Alberta." He hates Canada.

[Roc]

True-North True-North:

Roc Roc:

Rev_Blair Rev_Blair:

Some of us are even good enough neighbours to point out when you are making a horrible mistake, Roc. Far better friends than sycophants like Stevie Harper and Paul Martin.

$1:

I believe there is a distinct difference between pointing out when one is making a mistake versus transcending the line into blantant hatred. I believe this feeling or moral elitism on the part of some Canadians is hurting international relations between the US and Canada.

The Canadian left in all. It's arrogance is going about it all wrong.

Your exactly right man. It’s been that crossing the line stuff that I’ve tried pointing out for some days now.

I'm one Canadian that's got your back and not to stick a knife in it.

I greatly appreciate it TN! It would be nice to see those who are right thinking post more often.

A "friend" as those on the left in Canada like to tell us whom they are, would come to us and tells us how we are mistaken. But the left in Canada does not operate like that. What's that female politicians name? The one that referred to Americans as, "bastards." Yeah, some friends.

[Mr_Black]

maybe this is what Bush wants

http://globalresearch.ca/articles/CHO411C.html

[Scape]

Last week The Washington Times wrote that missile defence talks between Canada and the United States are “well-advanced, and call for permitting the United States to use radar and perhaps place missiles on Canadian soil. A decision is expected within weeks...”

Is this what George W. Bush has come to Ottawa to discuss – deploying U.S. missiles in Canada?

The Washington Times is a right-wing newspaper, frequently described as a mouthpiece for the Bush administration.

Later in the story, a Canadian expert in favour of the missile defence system argued, “the system would be more effective in dealing with future threats from the Middle East if interceptor missiles were placed in eastern Canada.”

If U.S. missiles are put in Canada – Victoria – all of Canada will become the front line in Bush’s global aggression.

Martin’s government is now saying openly that Canada must join Bush’s missile defence weapons system.

Not because it’s good for Canada – but because we have to appease the Bush administration.

In September a headline in the Toronto Star said, “Ottawa Backs Missile Pact.” In the story, Defence Minister Bill Graham said, “we should be really accommodating of the Americans and work with them as closely as we possibly can.”

We know that Canada’s Defence Minister Graham will sell out Canada’s security behind closed doors to appease the Americans and now, Paul Martin will do the same.

The truth is that we are up against a well-funded and politically connected military-corporate lobby.

The defence lobby and the corporate lobby have formed an alliance, and they are pushing for more economic and military integration with the United States – staring with joining Bush’s Star Wars scheme.

We need our own “People’s Lobby” to keep Canada out of Bush’s Star Wars, Bush’s War on Terror, and Bush’s deficit-ridden failing economy.

Nov. 29, 2004.
Big business pushing security agenda
By TONY CLARKE

For Paul Martin, George W. Bush's official visit to Ottawa this week after taking control of the White House for another four years, not only signals a new era in Canada-U.S. relations. It could also be the launching pad of a new political agenda for continental security.

Behind the scenes in Ottawa, Canada's big business leaders have been quietly mapping out a blueprint for a new deal with the United States.

Fifteen years after bringing us the Free Trade Agreement, Bay Street is quietly lobbying for a new form of economic union and trade deal with America. The C.D. Howe Institute calls it the "Big Idea" and others the "Grand Bargain." Meanwhile, the Canadian Council of Chief Executives (CCCE), representing the country's largest 150 corporations, calls its plan the "North American Security and Prosperity Initiative"

In April, 2003, CCCE head Tom D'Aquino led a delegation of 100 Canadian business leaders to Washington for meetings with their counterpart, the U.S. Business Round Table. To prepare their "new deal" plans, briefings were scheduled with Homeland Security Secretary Tom Ridge, Energy Secretary Spencer Abraham, White House Chief of Staff Andrew Card, and Richard Perle, former chair of the White House defence policy board and architect of the Bush doctrine on security.

The timing was particularly sensitive for Canada-U.S. relations. In Ottawa, Jean Chrétien's government had just announced its intention not to join the U.S. in its invasion of Iraq. In Washington, the Bush team reportedly told our business leaders that the central issue for the U.S. administration was "security," not "trade." In keeping with the Bush doctrine, security would trump trade in foreign policy developments.

Indeed, the terms of "engagement" had been radically altered since the events of 9/11, reinforced by subsequent wars in Afghanistan and Iraq. Any "new deal" between Canada and the U.S., therefore, would have to serve America's security agenda, which, in turn, meant a higher price tag.

First, Washington's demands for military security. Clearly, the big issue now is Canada's participation in the Bush plan to build a North American ballistic missile defence system. Non-participation, says Defence Minister Bill Graham, will have "consequences" for Canada-U.S. relations.

Yet, if the Martin government joins Bush's Star Wars enterprise, then Canada's Armed Forces will, in effect, be placed under the U.S.-led "Northern Command-NORAD" structure for military operations on this continent.

According to the Canadian CEOs, Ottawa would also have to invest heavily in Canada's military to ensure the "interoperability of Canadian and United States armed forces on land, sea and in the air." To do its part, Canada would have to make corresponding large increases in current levels of military spending for high tech equipment just to keep pace with U.S. commitments (now more than $500 billion annually).

Furthermore, these new military security measures would also lock Canada into a war-based economy with no choice but to support America's pre-emptive strikes in the future.

Second, U.S. demands for homeland security: Washington wants a full common security perimeter that encompasses Canada and Mexico, as well as the United States.

Ottawa has begun to comply by establishing its powerful new Ministry for Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness (modelled after the U.S. Homeland Security Agency in Washington), plus enacting similar anti-terrorism legislation (C-36) and setting up a data bank to track foreign air travel by all Canadians (C-23).

Also, under heavy pressure from the Canadian CEOs, Ottawa signed and implemented in December, 2001 the "Smart Border accord," to co-ordinate cross-border intelligence operations while harmonizing visa, immigration and refugee practices between the two countries.

Yet, as the case of Maher Arar shows, such measures can pose a serious threat to the civil liberties of Canadians — including detainment, deportation, imprisonment and torture.

Using police state tactics to track peoples' movements, while providing fast-track clearance for goods and services across borders, will not necessarily make us safe from attacks from terrorists.

Third, U.S. demands for energy security: Unbeknown to most, Canada is now the largest foreign supplier of oil, as well as natural gas, to the U.S. In submissions to Congress, Energy Secretary Spencer Abraham has declared the U.S. will decrease its dependence on Middle East sources in favour of Canadian sources.

In particular, the U.S. has focused its sights on the Athabaska tar sands in northern Alberta, where proven reserves are second in size to Saudi Arabia's and roughly equal to that of Kuwait.

With the Athabaska tar sands, Canada is able to supply the U.S. economy and its military needs with a safe and reliable supply of oil.

Moreover, the oil refinement process itself will be fuelled by the proposed Mackenzie Valley pipeline, which is to begin bringing Arctic natural gas south to Fort McMurray by 2009.

Yet, this massive increase in energy production will have untold environmental consequences for Canada, including our commitments under the Kyoto accord.

Indeed, the Bush-Martin summit, spurred on by big business lobbies on both sides of the border, could set the stage for a new deal on continental security. If so, Canadians will be called on to pay a huge price.

[Rev_Blair]

$1:

A "friend" as those on the left in Canada like to tell us whom they are, would come to us and tells us how we are mistaken. But the left in Canada does not operate like that. What's that female politicians name? The one that referred to Americans as, "bastards." Yeah, some friends.

Shows how little you understand about Canada Roc....Carolyn Parrish is part of the centre of the Canadian political spectrum. That spectrum is more in tune with other industrialized nations than the United States is.

The left in this country and your own has been talking, very eloquently, for years. It's just that the right in the US and in Canada have refused to listen. Instead they start screaming about communists and terrorists and their ever-present "family values."

[True-North]

Rev_Blair Rev_Blair:

$1:

A "friend" as those on the left in Canada like to tell us whom they are, would come to us and tells us how we are mistaken. But the left in Canada does not operate like that. What's that female politicians name? The one that referred to Americans as, " s." Yeah, some friends.

Shows how little you understand about Canada Roc....Carolyn Parrish is part of the centre of the Canadian political spectrum. That spectrum is more in tune with other industrialized nations than the United States is.

The left in this country and your own has been talking, very eloquently, for years. It's just that the right in the US and in Canada have refused to listen. Instead they start screaming about communists and terrorists and their ever-present "family values."

No problem Roc this is only one persons opinion .The Man from Mars speaks more for me than Carolyn Parrish ever will. I’m not "screaming about communists and terrorists and their ever-present "family values" Just the importance of show respect to the U.S.. Perhaps some wish bordered on Somalia or Ethiopia

[True-North]

Mr_Black Mr_Black:

maybe this is what Bush wants

http://globalresearch.ca/articles/CHO411C.html

Repost , Repost

[True-North]

Rev_Blair Rev_Blair:

$1:

$1:

I'm one Canadian that's got your back and not to stick a knife in it.

He's not a Canadian, Roc...don't believe him. The little oil patch separatist showed up here proclaiming that he was from the "Free Republic of Alberta." He hates Canada.

I dared to utter something (in jest) that was divergent to Blair’s way thinking so I guess that insult is directed at me .