[ssims]

Looks like the USA’s assertion that that Canada did not burn down the White House during the war of 1812 is just one big conspiracy.
(And Sir Winston Churchill was in on it also)
“The British appeared near success in the late summer of 1814. American resistance to the diversionary attack in Chesapeake Bay was so weak that the British, after winning the Battle of Bladensburg (August 24), marched into Washington, D.C., and burned most of the public buildings. President Madison had to flee into the countryside. The British then turned to attack Baltimore but met stiffer resistance and were forced to retire after the American defense of FORT MCHENRY, which inspired Francis Scott KEY to write the words of the "Star-Spangled Banner."

Lot's of disinformtion from our side to be sure.

[Choban]

I can honestly answer this question as a Yes, James Hoban is the achitect who designed the White House and involved in the reconstruction, he is a distant cousin of mine. Family records show that the British troops that burned it were made up of a mix of colonials and British troops (though all were thought of as British at the time)

[Zipperfish]

Actually, if you read the detailed history, it was a Canadian lumberjack put Madison in headlock and gave him noogies until he said Uncle. Then Madison ran away and cried like a big baby.

[ann1985]

electricbuford electricbuford:

What I want to know is when did Dolly Madison start makin' them lip smakin' snack cakes ??

ohhhhhhh,I agree with you !

[ManifestDestiny]

I can see it now. a bunch of drunk Canadians drinking Molson Canadian, watch those stupid commercials saying "you know we burnt down the facken white house eh"

It would have helped if Canada would be a soveriegn nation.

[GreenTiger]

Hopper Hopper:

General Ross, who led the invasion (or maybe liberation?) into Washington is buried in Halifax.

He was killed during the attack and was transported for burial.

Liberation I think is the better word. There was nothing honourable from the American side about the war of 1812. There were some genuine issues that the US had with Great Britain, but nothing that warranted a war unless you include (what is fully documented in the American Congress Congressional Record) the goal of annexing Canada by force. The American thinking was that British military stregnth was too involved with Napolean to be very strong north of the border, so Andrew Jackson thought it would be very easy to march up north and Annex Canada.

The only problem to this really "clever" idea was General Brock and Colonel FitzGibbons. They demonstrated to the Americans what good command and control can do.

The Americans did a number of very disreputable deeds, which these days would be considered war crimes which led to the retaliation of taking Washington and burning the White House (or Executive Mansion at the time).

An interesting point was that some of the New England states were so disgusted with Washington that succession was seriously discussed, so much so that a large army was sent to New England to "discourage" such discussions.

The Americans did achieve one great victory, in the peace talks, we managed to get the bordered restored to status quo ante, ie, before the war. If not then parts of New England and New York would have voted for Stephen Harper Conservative party and not Mr Obama.

Washington blowhards, never wanting to outdone, boasted to the American country "that not one inch of America was lost" because of their valient efforts. Bullshit in politics transcends the ages. The only difference is blackberries and microsoft windows. Congress tended to ignore that they were the ones attempting to sieze British North American territory.

The short version of all this is that yes indeed the British North American Forces did ruin Dolly Madison's evening by burning the Executive Mansion (White House).

[GreenTiger]

ManifestDestiny ManifestDestiny:

I can see it now. a bunch of drunk Canadians drinking Molson Canadian, watch those stupid commercials saying "you know we burnt down the facken white house eh"

It would have helped if Canada would be a soveriegn nation.

Well they did, it doesn't say a whole hell of a lot to the folks who were supposed to defend against the drunk British North Americans drinking Canadian Molson.

[Arrow]

GreenTiger,

You should be reading "Strange Fatality" about the Battle of Stoney Creek. Without a couple of propitious U.S. screwups and the actions of Major Charles Plenderleath, commanding officer of the 49th, the U.S. might well have rolled up Upper Canada after taking Fort George in 1813.

[martin14]

Arrow Arrow:

GreenTiger,

You should be reading "Strange Fatality" about the Battle of Stoney Creek. Without a couple of propitious U.S. screwups and the actions of Major Charles Plenderleath, commanding officer of the 49th, the U.S. might well have rolled up Upper Canada after taking Fort George in 1813.

Oh I see it was only cause your guys screwed up, and had nothing
to do with us.. good to hear
lots of maybe maybe maybe baby.. armchair generals rule the world !



And the end result was changed ?

[EyeBrock]

GreenTiger GreenTiger:

Hopper Hopper:

General Ross, who led the invasion (or maybe liberation?) into Washington is buried in Halifax.

He was killed during the attack and was transported for burial.

Liberation I think is the better word. There was nothing honourable from the American side about the war of 1812. There were some genuine issues that the US had with Great Britain, but nothing that warranted a war unless you include (what is fully documented in the American Congress Congressional Record) the goal of annexing Canada by force. The American thinking was that British military stregnth was too involved with Napolean to be very strong north of the border, so Andrew Jackson thought it would be very easy to march up north and Annex Canada.

The only problem to this really "clever" idea was General Brock and Colonel FitzGibbons. They demonstrated to the Americans what good command and control can do.

The Americans did a number of very disreputable deeds, which these days would be considered war crimes which led to the retaliation of taking Washington and burning the White House (or Executive Mansion at the time).

An interesting point was that some of the New England states were so disgusted with Washington that succession was seriously discussed, so much so that a large army was sent to New England to "discourage" such discussions.

The Americans did achieve one great victory, in the peace talks, we managed to get the bordered restored to status quo ante, ie, before the war. If not then parts of New England and New York would currently be getting into the present political discussions Canadian politics as the British/Canadian forces were all over them.

Washington blowhards, never wanting to outdone, boasted to the American country "that not one inch of America was lost" because of their valient efforts. Bullshit in politics transcends the ages. The only difference is blackberries and microsoft windows. Congress tended to ignore that they were the ones attempting to sieze British North American territory.

The short version of all this is that yes indeed the British North American Forces did rein Dolly Madison's evening by burning the Executive Mansion (White House).

Interesting points.

I do remember reading about an anti-war backlash in the New England states and I recall that trade between the Canada's, NS and NB continued with Maine and parts of northern NY, Pennsylvania and a few other states throughout the war.
There was also talk of secession and going back to being British colonies or looking at some kind of union with the Canadian colonies/provinces.

On the other hand, John Molson, (who made a tidy profit from the war) became a leading advocate in a sepaeration movement in the 1840’s, advocating the Canada’s joining the US republic.

So much for “I am Canadian.”!

And as for answering the original 5 year old post.

The Encyclopaedia Brittanica lists the following units as those who fought at the 1814 ‘Battle of Bladensburg’, then went on to burn the Whitehouse and other US government buildings in retaliation for the burning of various buildings in York (now Toronto) in 1813.

Under Major General Robert Ross, British Army

4th Regiment of Foot (King’s Own)
21st Regiment of Foot ( Royal North British Fusiliers)
44th Regiment of Foot (East Essex)
85th Regiment of Foot (Bucks Volunteers)
Elements of the Royal Marines
Gun crews from the Royal Navy

All these were British units that had been landed amphibiously in Maryland directly from bases in the UK. There were no Canadian units involved in either the “Battle of Bladensburg" or in the occupation of Washington and the subsequent burning of the Whitehouse..


This is like myth-busters! But we have been here often on CKA. Sorry to disappoint!

[Arrow]

martin14 martin14:

Arrow Arrow:

GreenTiger,

You should be reading "Strange Fatality" about the Battle of Stoney Creek. Without a couple of propitious U.S. screwups and the actions of Major Charles Plenderleath, commanding officer of the 49th, the U.S. might well have rolled up Upper Canada after taking Fort George in 1813.

Oh I see it was only cause your guys screwed up, and had nothing
to do with us.. good to hear
lots of maybe maybe maybe baby.. armchair generals rule the world !



And the end result was changed ?

I'm assuming that you're assuming that I'm a Yank which isn't the case. Prior to reading the book, I was of the understanding that the battle was fairly cut-and-dried as being a British/Canadian victory and in reading "Strange Fatality", it's pretty clear that were it not for the aforementioned U.S. screwups as well as Plenderleath taking the initiative and seizing the U.S. artillery that was left unsupported by infantry, Stoney Creek might very well have been a U.S. victory.

[Choban]

CDNBear CDNBear:

It was actually Irish conscripts under British command that torched the White House, if it hasn't been mentioned yet or anyone is still interested.

They weren't alone either, there were Native warriors along with the British and Irish lads.

Ironicaly an Irishman designed it and the rebuild as well, James Hoban (cousin of mine) from Kilkenny. There are Hobans all over both the US and Canada.

[EyeBrock]

There has always been and still is a lot of Irish in the British Army, both from Ulster and Eire.
And these regiments were regular army volunteers, no conscripts, they took 'the Kings Shilling'.

To say they were Irish conscripts is blatantly wrong.
These regiments would have been made up of guys from all over the UK, just like infantry regiments are today, even though they have specific localised names and/or recruiting areas.

The general who led them at Bladensburg and on to Washington, Maj-Gen Robert Ross was also born in Ireland.
The Irish do like to fight. I know, my parents are Irish, from Dublin and Cork.

[SnowJewel]

If you asked the average Canadian what they know of the War of 1812 in general and the Battle of Crysler Farm in particular the answer would be painfully short. For most of us Crysler's Farm is simply the one the Americans think they won. The reality of course is that two British regiments aided by a unit of Voltigeurs and First Nation warriors turned back an army of Americans on their way down the St. Lawrence to attack Montreal.

The most significant point is far less known and far more important. The Battle of Crysler's Farm was not only the battle that saved Canada, but the first time in Canadian history that British, French and First Nation soldiers fought together for the sovereignty of Canada.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Crysler's_Farm (there's more)says;

The Battle of Crysler's Farm, also known as the Battle of Crysler's Field, was fought on 11 November, 1813, during the Anglo-American War of 1812. A British and Canadian force won a victory over an American force which greatly outnumbered them, but was dispirited and badly led. The American defeat prompted them to abandon their "Saint Lawrence campaign", their major strategic effort in the autumn of 1813.

Casualties
Although the British casualties were initially reported in Morrison's despatches as 22 killed, 148 wounded and 9 missing, it has been demonstrated that a further 9 men were killed and an additional 4 men were missing.[18] The American casualties, from their own official returns, were 102 killed, and 237 wounded.[19] They admitted no men missing or captured, but between 100[19] and 120[20] American prisoners were taken. Most of these were severely wounded men who had been left on the field but fourteen enlisted men were captured after trying to hide in a swamp.[21] A Canadian who rode across the battlefield on the morning of 12 November remembered it being "covered with Americans killed and wounded".[22]

[Arctic_Menace]

matrix matrix:

So technically, the large portion of the British Military are in fact Canadians, and they are our ancestors!

Im wondeirng, Canada must of crushed the US in that war considering they were suppose to be invading us, but we managed to push them all the way to New Orleans... how did that happen? I guess the Americans should have been better prepared for the wrath of Canadian determination!

It's not so much that we fought all the way down there as it was a fleet of British ships sailing an army down there around the coast.