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PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 12:53 pm
 


Gunnair Gunnair:
I'd like to see the numbers of that compared to overall budget before I lay that out as a bloated and gross inefficiency. Beyond that, is that a military issue or a government t one which wants a lot or civilians on the centre?


The height of efficiency!

$1:
Generals are not allowed to talk about the cuts openly, because it is a politically sensitive issue that goes to the Conservatives' base of support, but one senior member of the military told CBC News the government is cutting the defence budget while "pretending they are not."

Another former top soldier now working as a policy adviser to the Liberals said he can't understand why the Canadian Forces are short of money when the Department of Defence underspent its budget by $1.3 billion in April.

Retired lieutenant-general Andrew Leslie wrote a 'transformation' report on the military that attacked the amount of money spent on consultants, before leaving the forces in 2011. He now advises federal Liberal Leader Justin Trudeau. (Murray Brewster/Canadian Press)

"This is fiscal mismanagement on a vast scale," said retired lieutenant-general Andrew Leslie, who authored a controversial "transformation" report on the future of the military before he left in 2011.

"Our transformation team, over two years ago, recommended they cut consultants and contractors, which in 2010 was at $2.77 billion per year.

"Since then DND increased spending on consultants and contractors to $3 billion a year," he told CBC News Wednesday. "This is irresponsible."


Source: http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/retired-generals-take-aim-at-ottawa-s-handling-of-defence-cuts-1.2469381

Maybe it is just me, but when I see the opposition claiming that the DND is dropping the ball...it is very telling. This is the stuff opposing parties love to lambast each other which, and he is placing a great deal of the blame on DND, not on the conservatives.

Why?

9 times out of 10, when there is smoke, there is a fire...and it seems to me that the smoke is coming from the DND.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 3:47 pm
 


peck420 peck420:
Gunnair Gunnair:
I'd like to see the numbers of that compared to overall budget before I lay that out as a bloated and gross inefficiency. Beyond that, is that a military issue or a government t one which wants a lot or civilians on the centre?


The height of efficiency!

$1:
Generals are not allowed to talk about the cuts openly, because it is a politically sensitive issue that goes to the Conservatives' base of support, but one senior member of the military told CBC News the government is cutting the defence budget while "pretending they are not."

Another former top soldier now working as a policy adviser to the Liberals said he can't understand why the Canadian Forces are short of money when the Department of Defence underspent its budget by $1.3 billion in April.

Retired lieutenant-general Andrew Leslie wrote a 'transformation' report on the military that attacked the amount of money spent on consultants, before leaving the forces in 2011. He now advises federal Liberal Leader Justin Trudeau. (Murray Brewster/Canadian Press)

"This is fiscal mismanagement on a vast scale," said retired lieutenant-general Andrew Leslie, who authored a controversial "transformation" report on the future of the military before he left in 2011.

"Our transformation team, over two years ago, recommended they cut consultants and contractors, which in 2010 was at $2.77 billion per year.

"Since then DND increased spending on consultants and contractors to $3 billion a year," he told CBC News Wednesday. "This is irresponsible."


Source: http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/retired-generals-take-aim-at-ottawa-s-handling-of-defence-cuts-1.2469381

Maybe it is just me, but when I see the opposition claiming that the DND is dropping the ball...it is very telling. This is the stuff opposing parties love to lambast each other which, and he is placing a great deal of the blame on DND, not on the conservatives.

Why?

9 times out of 10, when there is smoke, there is a fire...and it seems to me that the smoke is coming from the DND.


Interesting. I'd posit that consultants and contractors went up to replace the downsizing of the 90s in the war on terror of the last 12 years. They don't show up on the books as an increase in ranks to get the job done.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 4:13 pm
 


Gunnair Gunnair:
Interesting. I'd posit that consultants and contractors went up to replace the downsizing of the 90s in the war on terror of the last 12 years. They don't show up on the books as an increase in ranks to get the job done.


I'd accept that for some of them. I wouldn't for all of them.

If some of these past reports are accurate, the Canadian Forces have between 20,000-30,000 civilian administrators...for a force of approx 120,000 personnel (total).

That is still a ridiculous amount of 'overhead', and that does not include the 'overhead' that is in uniform, as they would be in the total number of military personnel.

Now, I'm not going to claim that I have done an in depth study into exactly how many administrative staff the Canadian Forces do need, but I will state flat out that any private enterprise that is that 'top-heavy' would never be in business for long!

Seriously, that is between 4:1 and 6:1 ('production':'administrator')...if we discount all uniformed administrative staff...


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 4:21 pm
 


The operations of large organizations and the operation of monopolieis are not going to be as efficient as smaller entrepreneurial outfits in competitive environments. That's just the economic reality. I mena it sounds good "We're going to cut the fat in Ottawa" but the fat was gone long, long ago. If it were easy, someone would have done it already. After a while it costs more that its worth to trim the fat.

Consultants and contractors are what the military wants now. No pensions, no pesky vertans ruining Fantino's day.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 4:23 pm
 


http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/pol ... e10702386/
Spending on headquarters administration at National Defence was 27 per cent higher in the first half of the last budget year despite the Harper government’s insistence the department cut overhead, according to the most recent quarterly forecast by the parliamentary budget office.

The figures look at the first six months of the just-completed 2012-13 budget year, and compare actual expenses with previous years.
Prime Minister Stephen Harper repeatedly insisted last year that Defence have “more teeth and less tail,” and reducing the administrative burden should be the department’s No. 1 priority.

Yet the budget office forecast, posted online, shows the reverse is taking shape.

Spending on internal services and property management is forecast to rise, while there are major reductions to surveillance, known as situational awareness, readiness within the army, including training, international operations, and environmental stewardship.

A final tally for the last budget year won’t be available until this August.


http://colinkenny.ca/en/p102512

Turf war heats up at DND HQ


Ottawa Citizen - September 19

By David Pugliese

Even though Canada's top soldier has told those in uniform it will be months before he has a clear idea of what needs to be cut from the military, battles inside National Defence headquarters are already under way as organizations try to protect their turf.

A Sept. 9 directive issued to personnel by defence chief Gen. Walter Natynczyk noted the recent report by Lt.-Gen. Andrew Leslie to find savings in DND's budget is being examined in light of other cuts the government is planning.

"Taken together, this creates a difficult backdrop for interpreting the potential advantages and drawbacks of recommendations made in the transformation report."

But the general added that it is already known that some of Leslie's recommendations won't be adopted and others will likely be deferred.

Leslie's report details how the number of headquarters staff has grown significantly, outpacing the increase of front-line troops. His team found that 46 headquarters employ 12,576 personnel at an annual cost of $3.1 billion.

Leslie's report indicates that savings could be achieved by cutting the number of headquarters and their staff, reducing the number of fulltime reservists, cutting by 30 per cent the $2.7 billion that DND spends on consultants each year, and moving 3,000 regular force personnel now in non-front-line organizations back to operational units. It also suggests cutting several thousand public servants.

Defence insiders say the report is meeting strong resistance from public servants and those in uniform.

Leslie has pointed out that there has been large-scale resistance to the cost-cutting measures outlined in the report. At a large meeting in December 2010 involving generals, admirals and senior DND public servants, he said there was a tendency for the group to argue for the status quo.

Retired general Rick Hillier, who brought in many of the changes in the command structure that led to increases in headquarters staff, has warned about the consequences of following through with Leslie's report.

Hillier, who did not respond to a Citizen request for comment, has spoken out about the report's recommendation to cut headquarters staff, noting that those individuals are needed to run the Canadian Forces.

If Leslie's report is implemented, "you destroy the Canadian military," Hillier said on CTV.

But Leslie's report calls for transferring staff in headquarters jobs to the front-lines and saving billions of dollars. The money saved would be redistributed to fund front-line military operations and staff.

Liberal Senator Colin Kenny says he is not optimistic the report's recommendations will be followed. "Their plan is to essentially outlast the news cycle and hope interest in it goes away," said Kenny, former chairman of the Senate defence committee.

He also questioned how the department's bureaucracy, led by Deputy Minister Robert Fonberg, can be involved in a review of what recommendations to follow when such public servants are part of the problem Leslie identified.

The upper echelons of DND's senior public service experienced significant growth, according to Leslie's report. In the executive category there are now 158 individuals, his team found. It also determined there was a 42-per-cent growth in DND civilian executives in the past five years.

"I think (Fonberg) believes he won't come under the knife," Kenny said. "The last people you cut are the executioners."

The senator said the only way the report's recommendations will be acted on is if the Harper government orders Fonberg and Natynczyk to do so.

Fonberg declined to be interviewed by the Citizen, but the department issued by e-mail an Aug. 5 joint statement he and Natynczyk sent to staff. It acknowledged the Leslie report had been delivered and would be instrumental in redirecting existing funding to meet equipment and operational requirements. The statement also noted the report is being analysed.

"As this analysis is underway, there is no need to comment further on the report," the e-mail said.

Leslie's report isn't the first to single out the growing and ineffective military and civilian bureaucracy at headquarters.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 4:23 pm
 


SigPig SigPig:
Gunnair Gunnair:
What are DND's inefficiencies and where is the bloating?


NDHQ. Canada is notoriously bloated in the number of military and civilian administrators for a force our size. Unfortunately that will and never has been where the cuts have ever come.



This sort of problem happens in all manner of large organizations (including private sector, corporate ones). It seems that the very people who are charged with carrying out cuts are the very one who should be cut. Cut the CBCs budget? Their response is to cut the production of all of their original programming. Now, the programs are the icing on the top and you want the public to "feel the pain" of those nasty cuts if you want your budgets to be left unscathed. What you are left with, though, is a multibillion dollar public corporation that produces nothing. The government wants the organization to cut fat and run more efficiently. The management wants to cut anything that does not directly impinge on their empires and reason for being. The CF are there, too. Its Time to call in Deloitte, Touche to perform a deep and detailed audit of the whole organization from General to cook. A third party is needed to unwind this boondoggle of comfy Yuppies encamped beside the Rideau Canal.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 03, 2014 1:33 pm
 


Gunnair Gunnair:
peck420 peck420:
Gunnair Gunnair:
I'd like to see the numbers of that compared to overall budget before I lay that out as a bloated and gross inefficiency. Beyond that, is that a military issue or a government t one which wants a lot or civilians on the centre?


The height of efficiency!

$1:
Generals are not allowed to talk about the cuts openly, because it is a politically sensitive issue that goes to the Conservatives' base of support, but one senior member of the military told CBC News the government is cutting the defence budget while "pretending they are not."

Another former top soldier now working as a policy adviser to the Liberals said he can't understand why the Canadian Forces are short of money when the Department of Defence underspent its budget by $1.3 billion in April.

Retired lieutenant-general Andrew Leslie wrote a 'transformation' report on the military that attacked the amount of money spent on consultants, before leaving the forces in 2011. He now advises federal Liberal Leader Justin Trudeau. (Murray Brewster/Canadian Press)

"This is fiscal mismanagement on a vast scale," said retired lieutenant-general Andrew Leslie, who authored a controversial "transformation" report on the future of the military before he left in 2011.

"Our transformation team, over two years ago, recommended they cut consultants and contractors, which in 2010 was at $2.77 billion per year.

"Since then DND increased spending on consultants and contractors to $3 billion a year," he told CBC News Wednesday. "This is irresponsible."


Source: http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/retired-generals-take-aim-at-ottawa-s-handling-of-defence-cuts-1.2469381

Maybe it is just me, but when I see the opposition claiming that the DND is dropping the ball...it is very telling. This is the stuff opposing parties love to lambast each other which, and he is placing a great deal of the blame on DND, not on the conservatives.

Why?

9 times out of 10, when there is smoke, there is a fire...and it seems to me that the smoke is coming from the DND.


Interesting. I'd posit that consultants and contractors went up to replace the downsizing of the 90s in the war on terror of the last 12 years. They don't show up on the books as an increase in ranks to get the job done.


It's not only that, but the age of the most of the equipment the Forces operates - the Sea Kings take more than 30 hours of maintenance per flying hour!

http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/201 ... kings-now/

I'd bet the 30+ year old truck fleet, 40+ year old destroyers and AORs, and 40+ year old SAR planes also eat up massive amounts of maintenance, all of which is done by the "tail", not the "teeth".

It's like when you buy a new car, all you have to do is rotate the tires and change the oil the first little while. Then after parts start going, you wind up with either hefty bills for replacement or buy a new vehicle.

No government has done much procurement for the Forces in the past 40 years.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 03, 2014 2:55 pm
 


bootlegga bootlegga:
No government has done much procurement for the Forces in the past 40 years.

Who provides the requirements for military procurement?

The fault isn't just the government. It is DND/Government.

All flash, no bang.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 03, 2014 2:59 pm
 


Zipperfish Zipperfish:
The operations of large organizations and the operation of monopolieis are not going to be as efficient as smaller entrepreneurial outfits in competitive environments. That's just the economic reality.


This is not an economic reality by any means. This is an excuse. That is a lack of imagination, creativity, tenacity, and a whole host of other attributes our country USED to be renowned for.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 03, 2014 3:36 pm
 


peck420 peck420:
bootlegga bootlegga:
No government has done much procurement for the Forces in the past 40 years.

Who provides the requirements for military procurement?

The fault isn't just the government. It is DND/Government.

All flash, no bang.

Minister for DND is a juicy political plum. One of the top couple of best plums for a Minister. Do you know why?


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 03, 2014 3:48 pm
 


Goober911 Goober911:
Minister for DND is a juicy political plum. One of the top couple of best plums for a Minister. Do you know why?

It is nowhere near the most prestigious of the Canadian Ministry positions.

Now, since you will disagree with that...


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 03, 2014 3:48 pm
 


peck420 peck420:
This is not an economic reality by any means. This is an excuse. That is a lack of imagination, creativity, tenacity, and a whole host of other attributes our country USED to be renowned for.


CFA Level 1: Microeconomics - Inefficiencies of Monopolies

The Economic Inefficiency of Monopoly

Lots of courses and sources out there if you are interested.

What is happening is that the government is becoming more monopolistic--everything being run by the PMO. More and more of departmental resources are required to feed the PMO machine. Cuts to front line services is happening in all departments, but being replaced by these feed-the-machine positions closer to the centre.

I do agree, there is no a lot of room for creativity or innovation.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 03, 2014 3:49 pm
 


Free fishing trips?


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 03, 2014 3:56 pm
 


Jabberwalker Jabberwalker:
Free fishing trips?

Good one. The largest discretionary budget in Govt. Able to sole source with little substantiation.
And contracting out has increased beyond what makes sense in DND.
Another way of awarding contracts to friends.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 03, 2014 3:57 pm
 


Hmmmm I LIKE the F-35!! I looks so .... so .... RAD!


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