[Rookiegirl]

it is 1:00am. Brain is not all there. Don't think a child is happy being bounced from foster home to foster home, wondering why no one wants them. Abortion is a choice. My choice or not. Depending on circumstance. Could you have a baby, if you were raped (hypathelically speaking)? What if your thirteen year old daughter came to you and told you she was pregnant? Being as young as she is, and she doesn't want it. What do you do? Ruin her life? Make her give it up for adoption? That could mess her up inside. Circumstances for everything. People react different. You seem like a strong individual, so you might take that on but some people aren't. I am pro choice. Its none of my business what Sally next door is doing. People who stand there and picket should get hobbies and mind there business. They are forcing there opinions on other people.

[grainfedprairieboy]

Rookiegirl Rookiegirl:

Don't think a child is happy being bounced from foster home to foster home, wondering why no one wants them.

Our society is too wrapped up in the cult of" happiness" and feel it is something that should be bestowed upon them rather and in its absence, they question the validity of their existence. This is a principle characteristic of our high divorce rate, Further, only in a society as affluent and spoiled as ours do we even have the audacity to debate our happiness levels.

Rookiegirl Rookiegirl:

Abortion is a choice. My choice or not. Depending on circumstance. Could you have a baby, if you were raped (hypathelically speaking)? What if your thirteen year old daughter came to you and told you she was pregnant? Being as young as she is, and she doesn't want it. What do you do? Ruin her life? Make her give it up for adoption?

Yes to all. Even the rhetorical ruined life as principle and honour are fundamentally more important then the individual. It is what I was taught and what I've passed to my progeny. As we say in the military; service before self.

Rookiegirl Rookiegirl:

That could mess her up inside. Circumstances for everything. People react different. You seem like a strong individual, so you might take that on but some people aren't.

Hardly an excuse. We have an old saying in our family; you make your bed you lie in it.

Rookiegirl Rookiegirl:

I am pro choice. Its none of my business what Sally next door is doing. People who stand there and picket should get hobbies and mind there business. They are forcing there opinions on other people.

Perhaps you would be more concerned if Sally ran a brothel or a crackhouse. Probably not. How about if Sally ran a church? Then maybe you'd be appropriately outraged.

[Rookiegirl]

I get it now....Military. My dad was in the army. He's a hardass too because as he says "they make you like that so things you see when your in the field don't effect you". I respect that. I grew up on the army base. If Sallys brothel next door gets out of hand then ya of course, but I don't care if she going to the hospital. None of my business. Its good to know that your daughters trauma or rape would become backseat to your opinion. Lighten up a little bit, have some compassion.

[MrMagicMan]

[MrMagicMan]

Rookiegirl Rookiegirl:

I get it now....Military. My dad was in the army. He's a hardass too because as he says "they make you like that so things you see when your in the field don't effect you". I respect that. I grew up on the army base. If Sallys brothel next door gets out of hand then ya of course, but I don't care if she going to the hospital. None of my business. Its good to know that your daughters trauma or rape would become backseat to your opinion. Lighten up a little bit, have some compassion.

At least her baby would be born. How does killing it make it better?

[Rookiegirl]

the first three month the fetus isn't a baby. After that, then yes.I would fight for my childs life...first.

[MrMagicMan]

Rookiegirl Rookiegirl:

the first three month the fetus isn't a baby. After that, then yes.I would fight for my childs life...first.

And an adult isn't a baby. A girl isn't a boy. What's your point about this three months? There is a new human present from conception.

[BartSimpson]

Blue_Nose Blue_Nose:

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

Now if you're on the receiving end of my second career would you want me to be a moral person or not?

Actually Bart, considering the how frequently you bring up (for no particular reason) the fact that you have opportunities to kill innocent/unsuspecting people, I'm just happy that you're on the opposite of the continent, moral or not.

It's a living.

Seriously, I bring it up because it seems that a disproportionate number of people live in some la-la land that's ruled by Care Bears and Teletubbies and they want to pretend that the world is a big field of daisies where we all hug each other all day long.

It isn't.

Canada has people out on the front lines risking their lives to protect those fools who are afflicted by the delirium I mentioned. Yet it seems that too many Canadians not only don't like the fact that soldiers are out there protecting them they actually go the next step and come to the belief that if Canada did not have soldiers then Canada would not have any problems.

No small number of Americans are also afflicted with this same mental illness.

I also bring it up because I'm still training people to do this and it's also on my mind that I recently spent a couple weeks training people in the field.

My book went from seventeen confirmed to twenty-nine confirmed last month so forgive me if it is still fresh on my mind.

I'm hoping that with the end of the month I can go back to inactive reserve and get on with my normal life.

I'm venting...no offense to you, BN, you are one of the good guys in my book despite your occasional jabs.

[BartSimpson]

Scape Scape:

Interesting topic.

What does a sniper feel when he shoots his target? Recoil. He feels no remorse over the taking of a life, his country sent him there to do it but a life was still taken in the process. To the sniper it is not a moral question but clearly he has killed in the name of duty. This professional distance allows him to perform his job. The family of the target would not be so forgiving.

Putting aside the reasons for why abortions are a choice and focusing solely on how it effects the lives of those immediately involved is much like the reasons why a sniper pulls the trigger. The morality of the act is all in the perspective of those involved. So, yes, you can remove the morality from it. The motivations of the people involved can entirely eclipse the morality of others, especially the unborn. A sniper does not take his targets out for dinner and know one gets to know an unborn child.

The first time I shot someone I memorized the whole thing. I still relive it. It was a necessary thing to do yet I wish it were not so. I know a lot of guys who blow steam and act like it doesn't bother them to shoot people but then you wake up in the middle of the night and there they are having a nightmare or they were sitting up in a cold sweat or I've even seen some gung-ho guys cry about it. No one mentions it or bugs them about it because we all do it, too.

I'm pretty typical of the guys my age who do this - as we get older we're less inclined to just shoot the shit out of a target. If I can come up with a defensible reason not to shoot someone then I don't. I've never been ordered to shoot anyone - just allowed to. It's always my decision and I always have to grapple with the necessity afterwards.

Despite the bullshit you saw in a movie, normal guys have problems with this stuff. It's only the sick bastards who get off on it and really have no remorse over what they have to do. Those guys get ostracized pretty quickly for being the blue falcons they always are.

By the way, I shot two Iraqis fifteen years ago who were about to murder an Iraqi civilian. That civilian's son is now my company clerk in a very weird coincidence. His father is alive because I was there when two assholes were about to kill the man.

Believe it or not, killing those two savages still weighs on me.

[Blue_Nose]

It's not what you do, Bart, it's just that you so frequently bring it up. I'm glad as hell you're out there doing what needs to be done, but I just didn't see how it relates to abortion.

To use your example of your morality, though, you're stating that you don't enjoy killing people, but realize you've been put in a position that you must make that decision - one that is not as simple as, "killing is good/bad". How would you apply that to the case of abortion?