[Blue_Nose]

2Cdo 2Cdo:

Just for those rather slow types who missed the point of my argument. You are the type of people who our present government adore, those who want the government to run EVERY facet of their lives! You are seemingly unable to think for yourselves and unable to uphold a concept of being responsible for your actions. Evident by your support of a "breed specific ban".
By the way the breed "pit bull" is NOT RECOGNIZED BY THE CKC OR AKC. But don't let that little bit of information interfere with your fear mongering and lack of intelligent thought!

Yeah, screw the government for trying to keep a few kids alive. Our choice of pet is more important.

[2Cdo]

Blue nose, you just let the government do your thinking for you, and leave any rational debate to the adults. By attempting to ban something that doesn't really exist just opens a huge pandoras box. i don't like my neighbours dog, its a mutt but looks kinda mean, lets call it a pit bull and have it put down. Who gets to decide "what" a pit bull is? You missed the entire point of my argument AGAIN!
I am all for the licencing of dogs (and cats but thats a different topic) and firmly believe that owners should be screened. I believe that dogs should either be kept on their property, by whatever means, and should not be allowed off-leash ever, when they are in public. I understand that people may have a fear of dogs due to some incident in their life, but some people just don't like them. Educating children about dogs behaviours could eliminate SOME of these attacks.
For whatever reason or another you don't advocate common sense and holding people accountable for their actions. No, you would rather ban something outright for what it might do! Why, lets ban alcohol, I might get drunk today and drive over someones kid. Lets ban knives, I might go into a rage and stab somebody. Lets again ban cars, I might be a horrible driver and run over someones kid today. Grand idea, it might save a few kids, after all my choice to drink, drive or cut my vegetables is not near as important as a few kids lives!
Engage brain before speaking bluenose or has the government given you permission to think today!

[Patrick_Ross]

2Cdo 2Cdo:

By attempting to ban something that doesn't really exist just opens a huge pandoras box.

Pit Bull = American Pit Bull Terrier.

2Cdo 2Cdo:

i don't like my neighbours dog, its a mutt but looks kinda mean, lets call it a pit bull and have it put down. Who gets to decide "what" a pit bull is? You missed the entire point of my argument AGAIN!

Pit Bull = American Pit Bull Terrier. AGAIN!

2Cdo 2Cdo:

I am all for the licencing of dogs (and cats but thats a different topic)...

Good idea.

2Cdo 2Cdo:

...and firmly believe that owners should be screened.

Not so good an idea.

2Cdo 2Cdo:

I believe that dogs should either be kept on their property, by whatever means, and should not be allowed off-leash ever, when they are in public.

It really is as simple as that, but a lot of people don't understand that.

2Cdo 2Cdo:

I understand that people may have a fear of dogs due to some incident in their life, but some people just don't like them. Educating children about dogs behaviours could eliminate SOME of these attacks.

It's a very good idea in principle, but it seems these things rarely work out that way.

2Cdo 2Cdo:

For whatever reason or another you don't advocate common sense and holding people accountable for their actions.

Common sense is neither common nor sensical.

2Cdo 2Cdo:

No, you would rather ban something outright for what it might do! Why, lets ban alcohol, I might get drunk today and drive over someones kid. Lets ban knives, I might go into a rage and stab somebody. Lets again ban cars, I might be a horrible driver and run over someones kid today. Grand idea, it might save a few kids, after all my choice to drink, drive or cut my vegetables is not near as important as a few kids lives!

:roll: Okay. Where to start...
-Drinking and driving is already illegal
-Stabbing people is illegal
-We license people to drive, we also license dogs
-Vegetarianism is murder

2Cdo 2Cdo:

Engage brain before speaking bluenose or has the government given you permission to think today!

Way to make a point. Would that be "anyone who doesn't agree with me is stupid?

[ridenrain]

2Cdo:

"You are the type of people who our present government adore, those who want the government to run EVERY facet of their lives!"

"I am all for the licencing of dogs (and cats but thats a different topic) and firmly believe that owners should be screened."

Who does the screening because, unless it's the seller, this is a contradiction.

Problem that I see is, good owners=good dogs, bad owners=bad dogs. How many people are going to go knock on the Hells Angels clubhouse door because their pitt bill ate their cat? Taking the owners to court will be another big headache. Is the life of a dog a criminal matter or small claims court, and the way our courts are running, the dog would be dead of old age before it was sentenced.

[Patrick_Ross]

lily lily:

If you go into a rage and stab someone, you did the stabbing, not the knife. A dog, unlike a knife, is not an inanimate object.

BOOM!

[PrairieChick]

I love pitbulls, was around them from the time I was a toddler until my mid 20's but I wouldn't have one around my kids now. Kids are unpredictable, no elaboration necessary! I also don't agree with someone else telling me what kind of dog I can have, what I do agree with is making PET owners take a responsible PET owners class of some kind.

[Ohdear]

I must say I am very disapointed in the people who truly believe that Pits are the biggest and baddest offender. Obviously we are using the media as an education tool. And the sad part is is that people rather say kill the dogs then even research or educate themselves on this issue. What Lilysmom is saying is something important that the average dog owner doesn't realize. For one the government put in a clause in there that allows for any dog to be confiscated without a warrant on the pretense that someone accuses them as menancing. So basically your neighbour down the street who doesn't like dogs can call the police or animal control and say the dog is menancing (they do not define menancing making normal dog behaviour suspect) and with out a warrant, or without you being home come into your house to take your dog.
Now do you care when it affects your dog? Because Bill 132 in Ontario certainly will affect all dog owners.
Not only that but like Lilysmom who whether you believe her or not has a dog that was never a pit bull and now she has to prove otherwise. If you don't believe me in what kind of dogs that are accused of being a pit you would be amazed. Check out Goodpooch.com. There they have reports of peoples pits and non pit owners being harrassed for having a pit bull or from people who think they have a pit bull. That includes and isn't limited to Danes, Lab mixes, plain ol labs, boxers, boxer mixes, even a jack russel terrier. So when you turn your head and don't care because it doesn't affect your dog please think twice. God forbid you are out walking your unmuzzled Boxer/lab cross that by the way looks exactly like a pit bull and someone calls the police and reports in their eyes an unmuzzled pit bull then guess what you now if you don't want to comply with all the pit bull rules will have to go to court and prove that your dog is not a pit bull. What happens if you don't have papers for you dogs like lilysmom. What if it was a rescue that has no papers. what if it is after the allote dtime to comply and you haven't registered your boxer/lab cross. Well guess what they WILL confiscate your dog and euthanize it.

Moving on for those of you who say pits cause more damage, there more dangerous. They cause deaths left right and centre.
Well check out this link of pit owners who have compiled a list of dog attacks that don't make it to mainstream media. http://www.pets.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=16026
Christ we hear about pit bull attacks in the states all the time. Do you really think that not one person in Canada on that same day wasn't attacked by another breed? I mean come on. We all know how the media works. Sensational headlines to catch your eye. What better then a good ol monstrous dog article going around ripping limbs off of children and people alike.
Not to mention two incidents that I can think of right now that made it to mainstream media that were reported as pit bulls but not retracted when the breed was found out not to be such. One being the cambridge paper boy and his mom being attacked. The same one that Michael Bryant was quoted as saying now little boys and their mothers can deliver papers without being attacked. NOt a pit bull! Did the media retract or correct their stories. Nope. That was just one story. There are many many like it.

Pomeranians have even killed more the 2 enfants in the states.

Tell me why the ontario liberal government didn't want to add a dog bite registry as an additive to this Bill 132 (pit bull ban) ? Because they don't want to be proved wrong. Tell me why they also didn't approve the oppositions attempt to add education for young children about dog bite prevention? Because it isn't really about the dogs it about media grandstanding. The Unhonourable Michael Bryant just like he likes to show his mug when Karla homolka issue came up. Its a political carreer move that he knew would be easy because he knows he can play on peoples fears.
Jaw Strength... I gues sthey have lock jaw too right? Well for starters it was proved that you could not register a dogs psi. And further more it was found by doctors that there is NO NO NO NO NO NO difference in a pit bulls jaw. So please stop with the myths. This is why people have such a misconception. I still read from credited journalists about the pit bulls jaw and lock jaw. MANY doctors have proven this not to be so.



If you look at the inquest in to the death of Courtney Trempe (killed by another breed of dog) the main findings that could have prevented this were education for children just for starters.

And if your argument is that a childrens life is more inmportant then your choice of dog. Ofocurse you are right BUT then we will have to ban a whole load of breeds including the cocker spaniel and pomeranian. We would have to ban labs... ya there right up there with dog fatalities. IS THAT OK WITH YOU?

HOnestly you guys are very close minded. Alot of real facts are being presented and all you do is toss it out the window. I am sure one of you guys will dissect my post ... At least I know I HAVE THE PROOF TO BACK IT ALLLLLLLLLLL UP.

Whats more is that pit bulls were the dog of the war. A lot of them recieivng purple hearts. There are also many pit bull heroes. Just type in Pit bull heroes in a search thread and I am sure you will find some good info.


2 pit bulls where chosen out of many dogs to search after the space shuttle columbia disaster. ALOT ALOT of them are search and rescue dogs. Alot of them go into nursing homes and hospitals. There are is one very famous drug dog in an airport down in the states (cant think of the one but I would be happy to provide info if need be)

I can't blame a pit bull for its actions. Its just a dog that tries to please its owners. I also can't blame them because they are the number one ABUSED breed of dog in the states and Canada. Why because the lowest of the low aquire these dogs because of the same reputation that we have created for them. Lets not foget I remeber when the scary dog was the doberman, then the German sheppard and rottiweilers. Its all jsut the trend right now. Why when a woman was savagely tore apart from a corso canario dog was there an influx of calls the corso breeders?

WAKE UP PEOPLE! I have so much to say.... Oh god.. the ignorance.. But I cant blame ya! If its in your face all the time ... and you dont know any better or maybe you don't want to know any better.....

[Ohdear]

Here is my pit bull. His name is capone. And today hes eaten 10 people.

[Ohdear]

"Who does the screening because, unless it's the seller, this is a contradiction."


There are a lot of reputable breeders out there that actually have you sign a contract with them. To ensure that you spay and neutur ( a fixed dog is less likely to be agressive) . Ensure you register and will take the dog back even after you having it for years. These same people only breed quality dogs unlike pet stores who's supply is from puppy mills. They ensure the health of a dog and always call for check ups of the dogs progress. Some even make you sign a contract that ensures you will have the dog obedience trained. THEY DO SCREEN. You tell a reputable breeder that you will only be home after 12 hours of work and they will not sell you a dog. Some won't sell their breeds to people with kids if the breed is not good with kids. There are tons of reputable breeders and rescues. Rescues are very very strict. I had a friend that couldn't get a dog from a breeder because she was single and had no one to walk her puppy when she was at work 8 hours a day. Just because you are unaware of these things doesn't make them untrue or impossible.

Go to any Humane society and try to adopt a pit bull. They see the need to screen especially for pit bulls because they end up in peoples hands who have bad intentions.

These are true animal lovers unlike the pet stores and puppy mills or back yard breeders who just try to make a buck.
All this is common sense...
You close down puppy mills and back yard breeders and there is half of you dog bite problem solved. That weeds out the irresponsible owners.
Put in education for children something the ontario government didn't think was important.... and you cut bites in half.

Thing is there is alot of things that could be done that would protect the public from all breeds of dogs big and small. WITHOUT KILLING or banning them.

[Ohdear]

Also as for the argument of the knife. That was a bad analogy.

If a dog is out of control on their owners lead who do we blame. THE DOG?
No we say that owner needs to train their dog.

People often blame dogs for dog behaviours. Sorry if you come into a yard with a chained dog (a chained dog is also much more likely to attack) and walk into the path of a chained dog you may get attacked. That is fact.

If you look at every pit attack or any dog attack there are always contributing factors. These factors are the dogs own sense of fight or flight. kids teasing, dog chained, unaltered..... Dogs don't just turn. Unfortunantly pit bulls are often aquired from iressponsible owners with bad intentions.


I can't stop posting......

[PrairieChick]

Ohdear Ohdear:

Here is my pit bull. His name is capone. And today hes eaten 10 people.

LOL what a smile, my pit bull used to drag all the blankets off my bed and lay down on them and chew on the remote until the TV came on, they are good dogs. My kids are the unpredictable ones!

My biggest issue is irresponsible dog owners as a whole, not breed specific irresponsible dog owners. I knew a guy that used to get his dogs high and shoot them up with steroids and fight them, he went to jail, the dogs got put down, I think he should have been put down! I posted another news story recently where the Mom locked the 12 yr old in the basement because her pit bulls were showing aggressive behaviour (the female was in heat) the kid got out of the basement and was killed, I wasn't there, I don't know if the kid was beating the dog, or if he tried to get between them doing their thing or if it was completely unprovoked, but anyways, the Mother should be the one to have her head examined, she should have put the dogs in the basement not the kid. Another example of irresponsible dog owners.

There should be tougher laws for people who exihibit irresponsible behaviour and I think the laws should be crime specific.

[IcedCap]

BSL is just another example of lazy reactionary legislation.

[Ohdear]

Lily you obviously don't read anything anyone says. I can see your ignorance when all you have to say that I am blaming the victims. I never said that. There are contributing factors that cause a dog to bite. Are you actually disputing that are you just trying to deflect the real issues.
And understanding those things would help prevent attacks.

You sound like you are mirroring the same arguments heard in the media.
Just because I am defending a dog doesn't mean that I blame the victim. Plus the whole point of my argueant is to show that it is the iressposible owners fault. Not the victim. Knowing though is half the battle. It about PREVENTION.

Here is some info on prevention created after a look into 3 fatal dog attacks which were
In January 1995, a 2-year-old boy in South Dakota wandered into a neighbor's yard, where he was attacked and killed by two chained wolf-German shepherd hybrids. In September 1995, a 3-week-old girl in Pennsylvania was killed in her crib by the family Chow Chow while her parents slept in the next room. In March 1996, an 86-year-old woman in Tennessee went outside of her home to check the weather and was fatally mauled by two rottweilers owned by a neighbor; the dogs had attacked and injured the woman 1 month before the fatal attack.






Three categories of strategies can be considered for preventing dog bites:

Owner and public education. Dog owners, through proper selection, socialization, training, care, and treatment of a dog, can reduce the likelihood of owning a dog that will eventually bite (7). Male and unspayed/unneutered dogs are more likely to bite than are female and spayed/neutered dogs (7). Educational and prevention efforts should be directed at parents and children. Veterinarians and pediatricians should address strategies for bite prevention, including the need for appropriate supervision of children. Other strategies include dissemination of information on preventing bites (see box(Table_B1)), school-based educational programs on bite prevention and canine behavior, and educational programs regarding responsible dog selection, ownership, and training.

Animal control at the community level. Animal-control programs should be supported, and laws for regulating dangerous or vicious dogs should be promulgated and enforced vigorously (8). For example, in this report, 30% of DBRFs resulted from groups of owned dogs that were free roaming off the owner's property. Some of these deaths might have been prevented through more stringent animal-control laws and enforcement. Although some breeds were disproportionately represented in the fatal attacks described in this report, the representation of breeds changes over time (Table_1). As a result, targeting a specific breed may be unproductive; a more effective approach may be to target chronically irresponsible dog owners (9).

Bite reporting. Evaluation of prevention efforts requires improved surveillance for dog bites. Dog bites should be reported as required by local or state ordinances, and reports of such incidents should include information about the circumstances of the bite; ownership, breed, sex, age, spay/neuter status, and history of prior aggression of the animal; and the nature of restraint before the bite incident.


What else do you need stats wise? You want me to prove everything i said. Just tell me what you don't believe and I will do my best to find the stats.


Funny thing is as you can see prevention is one of the major keys. Education for children - government said no to this... and bite registry so we can have real stats to help us understand... government said no to this...


Do you want the government to walk you across the street too? BAn sushi... oh wait they tried that...

[Ohdear]

Although some breeds were disproportionately represented in the fatal attacks described in this report, the representation of breeds changes over time (Table_1). As a result, targeting a specific breed may be unproductive; a more effective approach may be to target chronically irresponsible dog owners (9).


hmmmmm really? nooo?

[themasta]

It has been my experience that a mean owner creates a mean dog, regardless of the breed. But if there is a specific breed that is pre-disposed to aggressiveness, why not ban it or whatever? How bloody cares? It's a freaking dog!