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PostPosted: Sat Jul 16, 2005 12:25 pm
 


From the Toronto Star , 15th July 2005

$1:

Clinging fast to cultural identities


LYNDA HURST
FEATURE WRITER

Much has been made of the fact that the four suicide terrorists in London last week were born and bred in Britain.

That they may have been, but it seems apparent they didn't view themselves as "British."

If, as they made their way to London that catastrophic morning, they'd been asked how they defined themselves, they likely would have said Muslim, or more likely, Islamist, its fundamentalist political form.

Likelier still, they would have said they were jihadists: Warriors in a global holy war. It was to that they owed their loyalty.

Warriors in a holy war. In 21st century Britain. How could it have happened?

As Britons emerged this week from their shock and anger, several debates were begun.

To what degree were the country's Muslims in denial about extremists in their midst? To what degree would they now accept that condemnation of terrorism was not enough, that they would have to take tangible action to root out the poison within?

But the toughest and most sensitive discussion centred on the policy of multiculturalism. For all its good intentions, has it failed? More specifically:

Has encouraging immigrants to retain their cultural identities backfired, leading to self-contained ghettos alienated — by choice as much as exclusion — from the mainstream? And when does this phenomenon become detrimental to the common good?

Are groups whose culture and religion are effectively one and the same being made sufficiently aware they have chosen to live in a country where religion and state are separate entities, deliberately so?

Should the concept of ethnic and racial diversity set limits on religious diversity, at least in the public realm?

The discussion has resonance for Canada, certainly Toronto, where 44 per cent of the population is now foreign-born and where "ethnic enclaves," though celebrated by many, raise scarlet-red flags for others.

Tarek Fatah, executive director of the Muslim Canadian Congress, is emphatically one of them. Political Islamism exists here, just as it does in the U.K. and the rest of Europe, he says, and in large part for one reason: "Countries fail to tell immigrants right at the start that they're entering a zone where religion and the state are separate."

A Pakistani-born secular Muslim, Fatah has been writing letters to MPs for 15 years trying to explain that most Muslim immigrants come from nations where religion is the state.

"People should be told about the concept of citizenship, not just multiculturalism," he says. "They should be told that Canada's laws are created by human beings, by Parliament, and are not divinely inspired. They don't come from the Bible or the Qur'an or the (Hindu) Gita."

The irony is that most Muslim immigrants are fleeing from states based on fundamentalism, he says, "but their children are growing up to embrace it."

"It's because of the influence of certain Islamist imams and the (private-school) madrassas. Here in Canada, they're being told that the West is decadence incorporated, that all human-made laws are anti-God."

Through ignorance or naïveté or fear of offending minorities, Ottawa and the media are letting the situation slide, Fatah says. He cites the fact that sharia law is about to be approved by Ontario for use in Muslim family disputes, despite the vehement opposition of many Muslims who view it as "multiculturalism run amok."

There are problems ahead for Canada, he says, "but the danger is not yet recognized."

It was, in Britain last year, by Trevor Phillips, head of the Commission on Racial Equality. Born in London of Guyanese parents, Phillips called for the policy, if not the reality, of multiculturalism to be abandoned.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
`People should be told about the concept of citizenship, not just multiculturalism.'

Tarek Fatah, Muslim Canadian Congress

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


"We live in a different world from the '60s and '70s," he said in a controversial interview with the BBC. "We should be talking about how we reach an integrated society, one in which people are equal under the law, where there are common values."

Phillips said there was a need to "assert a core of Britishness" in all citizens. "Even if we disagree with some peoples' views on the Middle East, religion or anything else, they are all one of us. The first thing we must do is call them British, again and again and again."

His remarks were picked up by many commentators, among them former MP Matthew Parris, who says the aim of public policy should be to soften differences and promote shared views — the reverse of the way multiculturalism has played out.

"We should be honest about what this means. In practice, it must mean the slow erosion of minority value systems, minority cultures and minority languages."

Canadian author Neil Bissoondath pre-dated the British scrutiny by a decade with his highly critical book, Selling Illusions: The Cult of Multiculturalism in Canada.

Trinidad-born Bissoondath thinks our much vaunted cultural mosaic "has tiles separated by cement" because multicultural policy doesn't encourage newcomers to think of themselves as Canadian.

"With its emphasis on the importance of holding on to the former homeland, with its insistence that Thereis more important than Here,it encourages such attitudes," he argues.

Many Canadians of both long-time and more recent vintage echo what political scientist Rias Khan, at the University of Winnipeg, has said: "Whether or not I preserve my cultural background is my personal choice; whether or not an ethnic group preserves its cultural background is the group's choice. The state has no business in either."

Noted American historian Arthur Schlesinger agrees. He's written that multiculturalism "exaggerates differences, intensifies resentments and antagonisms, drives even deeper wedges between races and nationalities."

The endgame? "Self-pity and self-ghettoization, cultural and linguistic apartheid."

The conventional wisdom that all immigrant communities in Canada will integrate within a generation or two is being challenged by many analysts. They say that what was true for post-war, mainly European, nominally Christian newcomers is far less likely to occur with visible minorities, especially those whose religion plays a dominant part in their lives.

The blame game is an easy one. Muslims object that mainstream Canadians think all Muslims are by definition extremists. Mainstream Canadians object that the racists among them are deemed to represent the views of all.

Round it goes, on it goes.

"We're living in a world where there is a mixing up of different cultures, like it or not," says University of Toronto sociologist Wsevolod Isajiw. "A natural process of integration does happen, but not with all immigrants."

Integration occurs through "cultural negotiation," he says. "You give up something when you come to a new country, and you retain something. You negotiate your identity."

But Michel Ferrari, who specializes in multiculturalism and personal identity at the Ontario Institute for Studies in Education, counters that self-identity is "very fluid. We can present different stories about ourselves at different times to different people."

The three British-born terrorists may well have seen themselves as British some of the time, Ferrari says, but also as Pakistani, as well as — at one point — soldiers embarked on a lethal jihad against the West.

"Britain, like Canada, seemed to have adapted well to the changing pattern of immigration," says Isajiw. "They thought we were protected."

But extremism recognizes no borders. It moves in and out. "For that you can't blame multiculturalism. In any event, what is the alternative?"

It's a question currently without an answer.

But one thing Isajiw knows for sure: "Not talking about this will make it worse."


What's the thought that multiculturism is actually promoting ethnic ghettos that breed Islamist discontent?

I've read Bissoondath and Will Kymlica, both of whom decry the loss of a core Canadian identity that has been usurped my multiculturism and I tend to agree.

Not only have we lost our identity but it appears multiculturism is actually causing more rifts between Canadians of different ethnicity and could possibly be aiding the recruitment of extremists from the hyphenated-Canadian communities.



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PostPosted: Sat Jul 16, 2005 1:52 pm
 


Multiculturalism is another failed social engineering project, care of the Liberals.

Thank god PET is pushing up poppies, just think what this place would look like if he stuck around for another 20 years.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 16, 2005 1:57 pm
 


Once again, FUDDLE DUDDLE, hwacker.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 16, 2005 2:01 pm
 


Blue_Nose Blue_Nose:
Once again, FUDDLE DUDDLE, hwacker.


does that mean "right on the money" ?

i don't speak Flanders


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 16, 2005 4:12 pm
 


$1:
Does multiculturism spawn home-grown terrorists?


Nope, Timmy McVeigh and Teddy Kaczinsky were Americans.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 16, 2005 4:20 pm
 


USA doesn’t promote Multiculturalism.



But why would you not know that?


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 16, 2005 4:21 pm
 


hwacker hwacker:
USA doesn’t promote Multiculturalism.



But why would you not know that?


Your point being?


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 16, 2005 4:43 pm
 


Hmmm, seems to me the less progressive Muslims were ill-prepared for what they would find when they came here and a support base is still developing to help them make the transition as smooth as possible. It will take a few generations for them to find their way and place in our multicultural society. Just like all the other ethnic groups that came to Canada in large numbers.

It's totally different to Catholics coming to Canada to a support base of millions of Catholics who have a few hundred years of experience making new Catholic Canadians feel welcome and at home in this nation.

There is alot to learn for all people involved in Canadian society and the learning process is only beginning.

Would you ever know that your neighbour with the last name 'Peterson' is a third generation German-Canadian married to a fourth generation Italian if they didn't tell you? Their kids play hockey in the winter and baseball in the summer. They go camping all the time. The wife is a Ti-Cats fan because of some Irish-Canadian kid she dated in college. Damn!! They act Canadian to me......who would have known???

The majority of the Muslim population is relatively new to Canada. They need time to become full fledged Canadians.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 16, 2005 4:54 pm
 


Ya know...the first Muslim I ever met was playing caps at a party. He did sell me some hashish, but I doubt that had anything to do with heritage and more to do with the fact that there used be a ton of hash in Regina. I really have trouble seeing the difference beteween "them" and the rest of you guys.

Actually, I'd have no problem telling him from HWackoff. Manners and intelligence are easy ways to differentiate between individuals in conversation, after all.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 16, 2005 6:25 pm
 


Ethnic groups, when immigrating to a new country, should assimilate into that new country. This does not mean losing your cultural identity but rather means contributing your uniqueness to the whole country. Unfortunately many immigrants do not do that and they bring their "baggage" from the old country with them. Personally, I am against immigration, I see it as unnecessary and pointless. In addition, if you are moving to Canada you should at least be able to speak English/French fluently. I hate phoning the government or any other help desk because all I get is some Asian or East Indian you just moved to the freaking country and they have no idea what I am saying to them and vice versa. Just had to get that off my chest.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 16, 2005 6:32 pm
 


An interesting article, but I don't think Multi-culturalism is the cause of terrorism. It possibly allows them to assimilate more than normal though. Either way, the article does make a good point about how new immigrants need to be told that this is a different culture with different rules and conventions on behaviour.

Though, for immigrants, it is porbably very reassuring to move into areas where there are already a large number of people from your own country so the change isn't so drastic.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 16, 2005 8:48 pm
 


Let 'em hire. I have a lot of trouble with foreign labour relations. i've never met an immigrant yet that deserved to be abused.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 16, 2005 10:20 pm
 


Multiculturism does not spawn terrorism, in fact i think that it helps to reduce the likelyhood of terrorism. If the society of your new country welcomes you and makes you feel like you belong then there is probably a lesser tollerance for people who hate that country. Take Canada and the US as examples. There has not yet been a large terror attack in Canada while the US has been the target of many attacks over the last 15 years. I am not saying that this is strictly because of our differneces in multiculturalism but as was stated above "USA doesn’t promote multiculturalism. " while Canada is known to be quite the opposite, welcoming it with open arms


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 17, 2005 8:17 am
 


DG said:

$1:
Multiculturism does not spawn terrorism, in fact i think that it helps to reduce the likelyhood of terrorism.


The point is that the UK embraces multicult as much as Canada has/does. It did not stop four Brits from killing dozens in the name of Allah (peace be upon him).

I also agree with the article that the Chinese only malls etc in the Greater Toronto Area are worrisome and an indicator that our immigrants are not entering the mainstream but prefer to be in ethnic enclaves.

I believe we need a strong Canadian culture and identity, these enclaves do not add to our society, they fracture it. New Canadians should be encouraged to be Canadians, not hyphenated plastic Canadians.
Canada Wonderland held "Muslim Day" and gave discounts to muslims yesterday. I'd like to go on Catholic day but they don't have one.

Immmigrants also need to learn English or French. I have met numerous people who have been here decades and can't speak English. That's just wrong.

When I travelled in the Air Force I always made an effort to learn the local language of the country I was in.

Immigrants to Canada should learn our language(s) and we should encourage them to learn about our history and culture, not just the crap in the Citizenship booklet.

The whole multicult thing needs to be re-examined and greater emphasis should be made into turning immigrants into Canadians, not hyphenated enclave dwellers.


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