[Dayseed]

Scape,

I'll address your error in law first. Follow your own logic. You want Canada to prosecute Zundel in Canada for a German crime that isn't one here. There is no Act of Parliament that the Canadian government can cite on an Information to proceed with a trial. You are wrong. Your example states that somebody who breaks the laws of the land should be tried by that land. Go ahead Clarrence Darrow, cite the Act of Parliament that Canada overlooked.

Your second point in the paragraph doesn't logically follow. How does Zundel financing enemies of the state not make him a threat to national security and what does that have to do with rich people questioning the government? Where has Zundel been reprimanded for questioning the Canadian government? Where is the police state?

As to the contents of your second paragraph, it reeks of weak rhetoric. I'm a Nazi, a grammar Nazi and more? You honestly believe that deserves rebuttal? And you did intimate that you wished for respect with your quote of "Respect is a two way street." Also, scruples are what give somebody pause before making a decision. You don't know what I've mentally considered in my decision to refute your posts.

Lastly, demonstrate that I'm an intellectual fraud. What have I held out to this forum to be true that I know to be false? It's a libelous accusation and I'll hold you to it until you retract it or prove it.

You think I'm a wretched creature and I've earned your pity? Whoopty-fucking-doo. You have yet to refute a single factual point and in that, you can rightfully be branded an ignoramus. You can also be branded a coward as you abandon position after position after position without rightful acknowledgement that you've been wrong. You can also be rightfully labelled disingenuous as you ignore your errors. You can also be labelled semi-literate with your abundant errors of grammar, syntax and diction. Also, you can place the hypocrite label on your forehead as you bemoan my lack of civility and then you toss around that I 'must' have been picked on as a child and I'm wretched. I can't prove it, but I'd be willing to be $20 you smell bad in person.

But, feel free to pity others.

[Mustang1]

scape,

Firstly, you didn’t offer one tangible piece of “hidden history.” Nothing. You threw out the Katyn Massacre, but it wasn’t hidden, esoteric, ambiguous or questionable. Not only that, but HOW does it affect the standard orthodox WWII narrative? IT DOESN’T!!! It’s part of said model already (it was integrated in the 1950s!). That was my salient point: Demonstrate exactly what objective components of the Holocaust model (or WWII) require serious investigation. Show me the irrefutable, tangible, and accessible (read: not researchin’ via web-surfin’) that seriously calls into question the standard scholarly understanding the Holocaust. You can’t. Sorry.

The objective Holocaust doesn’t need “conceptualizing” – it’s already been done! There are copious amounts of secondary sources that “conceptualize” it (see Browning, Pickus, Roth, etc) and besides, what objective elements need revising (show me the historiographical evidence!)? Zundel (he talks about Nazis flying saucers!), Irving, Rassiner are Holocaust revisionists. They aren’t trying to understand the philosophical elements behind National Socialism (well, admittedly Irving is better than others) and its ideological desire to employ social engineering – they are pushing a cotemporary political agenda!

The postsecondary system can be somewhat rigid and political, but did you ever consider the notion that the reason Holocaust deniers, or Holocaust minimalists (the term currently in vogue) are ignored or dismissed is because they are wrong? In reality, they are fundamentally chastised because they cannot successfully prove their primary theses. Their shoddy methodology, suspicious sources, historiographical errors, questionable conclusions and generally poor historical understanding hinder and untimely destroy their scholarly credibility. They are simply trying to propagate an agenda and have chosen the field of history as their “intellectual” avenue. So far, good scholarship has prevented their message from becoming part of any historical models. Deal with it.

What’s patently worse is that the bulk of their “research” comes from other revisionist historians. These alleged “crusaders of truth” (examples include Taylor, Rassiner, Zundel, Irving and Leuchter) have been ridiculed by orthodox academia for their revisionist conclusions and questionable methodologies, but Holocaust deniers constantly crib from their work as though it was legitimate/acceptable history. The reason for its exclusion from traditional academia is simple: it’s wrong. Not in an ambiguous manner, it’s just plain erroneous. It lacks good scholarship and it has failed to gain a conventional acceptance largely due to this glaring issue. Revisionists propagate the view that it’s a Zionist conspiracy, mass ignorance or sheer guilt that keeps academia from adopting their historical models. The answer, unfortunately for them, is much simple: they are anti-Semitic, Hitler apologists who couldn’t care less about historical inquiry and the fruits of their effort bear this out.

[Scape]

Impressive Dayseed in your 1st sentence of rebuttal you display your total failure to grasp the fundamental argument of this thread. I should be astounded but consistent repetition of a theme has demonstrated beyond all reasonable doubt that your incapable of getting that right and I am beginning to doubt that you will ever come to terms with reality.

Dayseed Dayseed:

You want Canada to prosecute Zundel in Canada for a German crime that isn't one here. There is no Act of Parliament that the Canadian government can cite on an Information to proceed with a trial.

1st how can I be wrong when you can't even get the question right? I don't want Zundel charged for a German crime on Canadian soil. I said I want Zundel charged on Canadian soil for a Canadian crime. If he is found guilty he could then be deported and serve the sentence in a German jail. They can then charge him with whatever they deem fit as the criminal he is but I do not want German laws, or any foreign laws for that matter, having precedent over Canadian soil. Very simple. This deportation shuts up Zundel but it does not follow the proper process of law it bypasses it. Is this on the behest of Israel or some Illuminati type body is merely speculation but this swings wide the door to skewer the intent of our laws and opens it up to any foreign power that does not hold the laws of our land as anything more than a mere inconvenience.

It is impossible to respond to the rest of your written diarrhea as to proceeds from that fundamentally flawed point. So any rebuttal at this point would be speculation on your intent as a writer and not upon the thread topic.

Mustang1, you admit that the example of the Katyn Massacre was integrated in the 1950s but the war ended in 1945. What say you to those lost years? Was it political expedience that omitted this? Does this not demonstrate the very attribute I am trying to convey? I am simply stating that such a scenarios is indeed plausible and in fact continues richly to this day in all its forms. In order to separate fact for fiction one must question the record.

[Mustang1]

Scape Scape:

Mustang1, you admit that the example of the Katyn Massacre was integrated in the 1950s but the war ended in 1945. What say you to those lost years? Was it political expedience that omitted this? Does this not demonstrate the very attribute I am trying to convey? I am simply stating that such a scenarios is indeed plausible and in fact continues richly to this day in all its forms. In order to separate fact for fiction one must question the record.

Seriously, this needling reeks of desperation…you leave massive sections of objective facts/analysis omitted (like the Holocaust) and instead of simply conceding the point (ones that in your immatureness, you doggedly refuse to accept), you take abridged minute, irrelevant and, in this case, previously well articulated components, and try to salvage your crumbling case by desperately trying to earn points on the dialogue’s periphery. It won’t work, but I’ll humour you and address your last attempt anyway.

Firstly, please read this slowly. The National Socialists promulgated the Katyn massacres in 1943. The German government made reference to it, as it was a propaganda coup. It was known by 1943 – TWO years before the war was over and while some disagreement was raised in certain circles (many intelligence personal correctly assigned Soviet guilt, but were ignored due to wartime alliance issues – this is immaterial to the discussion at hand because it was pre-narrative construction), it was NEVER “HIDDEN HISTORY”, as you erroneously asserted and its debated (2 years of debate are immaterial because they are again, pre-narrative construction) particulars (which were concluded by the early 1950s and some minor historical points after Russian archives were opened) never called the standard WWII narrative into serious question. Got it? It wasn’t hidden, esoteric, ambiguous or questionable. Not only that, but HOW does it affect the standard orthodox WWII narrative anyway? Answer: It doesn’t.

Finally, That was my salient point: Demonstrate exactly what objective components of the Holocaust model (or WWII) require serious investigation. Show me the irrefutable, tangible, and accessible (read: not researchin’ via web-surfin’) that seriously calls into question the standard scholarly understanding the Holocaust. Your Katyn Massacre examples DOES NOT fall into this category, but, by all means, keep trying.

[Dayseed]

Scape Scape:

1st how can I be wrong when you can't even get the question right? I don't want Zundel charged for a German crime on Canadian soil. I said I want Zundel charged on Canadian soil for a Canadian crime. If he is found guilty he could then be deported and serve the sentence in a German jail. They can then charge him with whatever they deem fit as the criminal he is but I do not want German laws, or any foreign laws for that matter, having precedent over Canadian soil. Very simple. This deportation shuts up Zundel but it does not follow the proper process of law it bypasses it. Is this on the behest of Israel or some Illuminati type body is merely speculation but this swings wide the door to skewer the intent of our laws and opens it up to any foreign power that does not hold the laws of our land as anything more than a mere inconvenience.

What the fuck are you talking about? I have challenged you to cite the Act of Parliament under which you would have indicted Zundel. You have consistently failed. I noticed you chickened out of putting that challenge in the quote box too. Nice one Perry Mason. The rest of your post is a complete avoidance of having to put your money where your mouth is. Also, if he's convicted of a Canadian crime in Canada, why the hell would he be deported to Germany? Jesus Christ Bethany, that was the worst intellectual fart I've had the displeasure of smelling. Anybody reading your post now has to wipe the tears from their eyes. Isreal and the Illuminati? You are reaching and grasping for ANYthing. I have quoted you specific law after law, you have offered NOTHING.

You have yet to prove that the Canadian government disapproved of his views. Show me evidence to back up your theory.

I also noticed you're either too stupid, too chicken or too ignorant to back up your accusation that I am a fraud. You're being held to your posts.

So in closing, if you believe that Zundel should have been charged in Canada, cite the Act of Parliament under which you would have indicted him or concede the point that you don't have a damn clue what you're talking about. To quote Mustang1, when you dodge, I predicted it.

[Dayseed]

I think we can see that people who took up the cause of Zundel are indeed bigmouthed cowards.

[realcanuck]

hitler never scape goated the jews in germany!it was there actions in germany prioer to the war that set the holocaust in motion!remember that they were kicked out of a lot of countries before germany ever came a long!they need a little self reflection and less pointing of there fingers!the talmud makes mien kompt look like a boys scout manuel in comparison to hatred!

[Regina]

Hmmm ?? No caps, lame rambling, no punctuation, grade school spelling and grammar, likes Hitler........herr is that you??

[RoyalHighlander]

Regina Regina:

Hmmm ?? No caps, lame rambling, no punctuation, grade school spelling and grammar, likes Hitler........herr is that you??

he is about to be banned.. you should see some of the other posts hes made here

[Dayseed]

Regina,

Herr wouldn't schtoop to a moniker like RealCanuck. Even if he tried to disguise himself as such, in addition to all your points, the text still lacks 40% 'haha's and 'lol's with no 'balls on!' in sight.

Have you ever wondered what little Kid Dracula has been up to?

[fred22]

I think Zundel should be towed across with one water ski strapped to his nazi ass. Hows it going day?
Cheers
fred

[Regina]

RH, I saw a few of them and also saw the pattern. I think school is back today so it may be the last we see of him.......even if he hasn't been rightfully toasted. Why is it that any of these twits with that agenda never have the ability to write a cohesive statement?.......never mind I think I just answered my own question.

Dayseed 100% balls on with your additional analysis. I do wonder what Vlad has been up to.........bet he's driving some poor teacher in Toronto absolutely crazy with his spare time.

Fred22 you forgot to mention it should be over a pool of sharks.

[poopy]

i dont agree with what this person has said,but i think they have the right to say it though!

[Regina]