[badsector]

I used to have co-workers from Alberta who came to Ontario to find jobs. Some left their families there and send most of their earnings home. Now it's Alberta's turn. Mind you... if a lot of Liberal Ontarians move to Alberta, won't it turn Alberta's polulation into Liberal? )))))))))))) What an evil thought....

[Guest]

[QUOTE BY= badsector] I used to have co-workers from Alberta who came to Ontario to find jobs. Some left their families there and send most of their earnings home. Now it's Alberta's turn. Mind you... if a lot of Liberal Ontarians move to Alberta, won't it turn Alberta's polulation into Liberal? )))))))))))) What an evil thought....[/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> Oh, you mean like how when a city's landfill gets full, they send their trash elsewhere?<br /> <br /> If Socialism is so fantastic...then why would leftists want to leave their left-wing homebase and go towards a decidedly right-wing province?<br /> <br /> As for Socialists 'turning' Alberta, my theory has always remained true: Once you earn something without any government help, you begin to change your idea over how effective/potent Conservatism is.<br /> <br /> Soon you realize that reliance on government is basically a hindrance than anything else.<br />

[Calumny]

[QUOTE]"Alberta's oil sands could become the single biggest contributor to new global supply within 10 years, according to a report released Wednesday by CIBC World Markets."[/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> Without commenting on the article itself, it really reminds me of some I read some 25 years back while living for a few years in Alberta.<br /> <br /> I arrived there near the tail end of a 'boom'. Alberta was flush with 10 Bil in the Heritage Trust Fund and running smooth ly under the Conservative (Lougheed) watch.<br /> <br /> Everything was pretty peachy and there was much talk from folks like Peter Pocklington regarding the usual government staying out of thins, necessity for small government , blah, blah, blah lines favoured in some quarters.<br /> <br /> By the time I left, things weren't going so well for old Pete and a few others, who oddly enough, given previous coments, went squeling to the government trough looking for whatever handouts might be available.<br /> <br /> The Heritage Trust Fund was pretty much empty, having been needed by the Conservative government to bribe voters for a return to power ($1500 for everyone, or somesuch thing.).<br /> <br /> Anyway, <br /> <br /> [QUOTE]As for Socialists 'turning' Alberta, my theory has always remained true: Once you earn something without any government help, you begin to change your idea over how effective/potent Conservatism is.<br /> <br /> Soon you realize that reliance on government is basically a hindrance than anything else.[/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> I've noticed that it's easy to be a 'socialist' when you're broke and a 'conservative' when you aren't and that many who find government a 'hindrance' when they're flush are the first to put their hand out to the same when they're not, or always had it there anyway while complaining about others doing the same.<br /> <br /> I recently came across this old speech by Stéphane Dion. I realize that some of his remarks won't be palatable to all and I'm including it solely for his comments re: sharing.<br /> <br /> <a href="http://http://www.pco-bcp.gc.ca/aia/default.asp?Language=E&Page=PressRoom&Sub=PressRelease&Doc=19970421_e.htm">Stéphane Dion</a><br /> <br /> I'll end by noting that the 'left-wing homebase' of Ontario is, last time I checked, the only province that has never received an 'equalization' payment.

[Guest]

[QUOTE BY= Calumny] I've noticed that it's easy to be a 'socialist' when you're broke and a 'conservative' when you aren't and that many who find government a 'hindrance' when they're flush are the first to put their hand out to the same when they're not, or always had it there anyway while complaining about others doing the same.[/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> This is b.s.<br /> <br /> Many people know that even if times are tough, they'd rather go about it on their own than ask for help.<br /> <br /> Whatever happened to PRIDE?<br /> <br /> And I mean pride as in having the self-respect/motivation to better one's life?<br /> <br /> Not just parading the streets bitching/moaning over gayism.

[Calumny]

[QUOTE]This is b.s.[/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> No, it isn't. <br /> <br /> [QUOTE]Whatever happened to PRIDE?[/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> I don't know. Probably the same thing that happened to manners, consideration for others, etc. since the time when swearing in public, name-calling etc. was not seen as acceptable or desirable....oh yeah...before the internet. <br /> <br /> [QUOTE]And I mean pride as in having the self-respect/motivation to better one's life?[/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> We all see people doing this every day and we all probably do so ourselves, in accordance with whatever our personal definition of a 'better life' may be.<br /> <br /> Of course, many also do something to try and better the lives of others as well.

[Guest]

[QUOTE BY= Calumny][QUOTE]Whatever happened to PRIDE?[/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> I don't know. Probably the same thing that happened to manners, consideration for others, etc. since the time when swearing in public, name-calling etc. was not seen as acceptable or desirable....oh yeah...before the internet. <br /> [/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> Don't ever expect that from socialists. They are oftentimes the rudest/arrogant/self-absorbed pieces of human waste you'll ever find.<br /> <br /> I did canvassing this past weekend for the local conservative riding. Especially the NDP/Green Party'ers started yelling/screaming at us. Even one guy wanted to threaten my fellow canvasser.<br /> <br /> She was an old 5 foot woman in her 50's canvassing with me...and suddenly she was being threatened by a mid-30's six foot tall Leftist who just couldn't keep his comments to himself.<br /> <br /> When you see grown adults act like psychopaths...then you know it's time for Harper to be PM.<br /> <br /> Seeing the way that dickhead was yelling/screaming about Harper...to a completely defenseless old woman...<br /> <br /> Maybe Harper SHOULD bring military troops into Canadian cities.<br /> <br /> Soldiers with guns.<br /> <br /> In Canadian Cities<br /> <br /> I'm not making this up.<br /> <br /> <br /> It actually would be funny to watch some cops beat the crap out of that guy. I'm sure his anger over Harper is so fierce that he wouldn't even notice a Rodney King style beating happening to him.<br />

[Brent Swain]

Beating the crap out of innocents is a favorite passtime for Harpers hero ,think alike, and puppet master George Bush. He blew up a lot of little old ladies, children and elders, under the admiring eyes of Harper, who wanted Canada to help him in these endevors<br /> Brent

[Guest]

[QUOTE BY= Brent Swain] Beating the crap out of innocents is a favorite passtime for Harpers hero ,think alike, and puppet master George Bush. He blew up a lot of little old ladies, children and elders, under the admiring eyes of Harper, who wanted Canada to help him in these endevors<br /> Brent[/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> Buddy...blame Bush all you like. <br /> <br /> The way that tard was acting was completely and utterly out of line.<br /> <br /> On the net and messageboards, you can vent/scream/bitch all you like. But you don't 'tower' over a 5 foot tall defenseless woman (The guy was easily 6 foot+) and scream at the top of your lungs at her to 'get the fuck off of my property'<br /> <br /> I like how you try and 'blame the victim not the rapist' type of spin.<br /> <br /> Socialists use that argument nonstop.

[Calumny]

[QUOTE]Don't ever expect that from socialists. They are oftentimes the rudest/arrogant/self-absorbed pieces of human waste you'll ever find.[/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> I don't know, I've visited a few self-styled Conservative sites that would give any rude leftist a run for their money.<br /> <br /> I think the ill-mannered are found across the political spectrum.<br /> <br /> I'm not being critical here however, if you use the same approach for canvassing that you do here at times and in your blog, I can see where it might hit some the wrong way and rile things up.<br /> <br /> Still, that doesn't excuse the behaviour you indicate was directed at your colleague.<br /> <br /> Were the ''leftists' also canvassing?<br /> <br />

[Roy_Whyte]

Absolute clap-trap! There is not a shift to the right taking place in Canada. The numbers do not support that assertion at all. People now voting conservative who didn't vote for them last election almost to a tee are doing so not because they believe in the Conservative platform, but because they can't vote liberal again and don't see fit to vote NDP or other.<br /> <br /> When the Cons form a minority government which it looks like they will, it will be with less than 50% of the popular vote. In fact put me on record as saying it will be in the high 30's to low 40's. Now couple that with my prior paragraph about support and the fact that 40% of Canadians don't vote - so the Cons in effect will form government really representing at best 30% of the population - and that's at BEST!<br /> <br /> Don't 'follow the money' follow truth, fact, reason and numbers. Faith-based may be the new mantra of the far right in Canada but it certainly holds no water for those willing to ask questions and look at the entire picture.

[samuel]

[QUOTE BY= Roy_Whyte]People now voting conservative who didn't vote for them last election almost to a tee are doing so not because they believe in the Conservative platform[/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> What is in the Conservative <a href="http://www.conservative.ca/media/20060113-Platform.pdf">platform</a> or <a href="http://www.conservative.ca/media/20060113-FiscalPlan.pdf">fiscal plan</a> that is not to believe in? I've browsed through them, have you? Don't give me the Liberal spin on it either, I've listened to it and if anything doesn't add up it's their mud slinging.

[Guest]

[QUOTE BY= Calumny]I don't know, I've visited a few self-styled Conservative sites that would give any rude leftist a run for their money.[/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> I myself have never in person did what I saw that tard do. I've often met people with widely differing politicial viewpoints and oftentimes you have to have a sense of humour.<br /> <br /> Yelling/screaming at a totally harmless woman just isn't cool. Even if she was wearing a Conservative Party button.<br /> <br /> [QUOTE BY= Calumny]I think the ill-mannered are found across the political spectrum.[/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> But definetively not equal. Socialist/Leftist protest groups are vastly more in number/vocal than the right. Look at the G8 protests for crissakes. <br /> <br /> <br /> [QUOTE BY= Calumny]I'm not being critical here however, if you use the same approach for canvassing that you do here at times and in your blog, I can see where it might hit some the wrong way and rile things up.[/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> Two totally different universes. I've had members of all parties, including the NDP (total piece of shit party) knock on my door. At best, I'd listen to their pitch, take a pamphlet and *wish them luck* in the sincerest tone I can muster. <br /> <br /> And in all honesty, I *DO* wish them luck. Anyone who's passionate about their beliefs, I only can hope the best for them that they'll succeed. Even if it goes against my own beliefs.<br /> <br /> Who am I to step in and sabotage someone's beliefs?<br /> <br /> What I won't do however is publicly berate/harangue them to their face in a near-illegal manner. <br /> <br /> That asshole I saw was waving his fists at this woman. He was totally out of line. Y'know, lefties always go on and on over how much they 'care' and are 'compassionate', when in reality they are backstabbing/two-faced/pieces of human excrement.<br /> <br /> [QUOTE BY= Calumny]Still, that doesn't excuse the behaviour you indicate was directed at your colleague.<br /> <br /> Were the ''leftists' also canvassing?<br /> <br /> [/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> Didn't see any. I was told they were on the street a day earlier. <br /> <br />

[Calumny]

[QUOTE]Yelling/screaming at a totally harmless woman just isn't cool. Even if she was wearing a Conservative Party button.[/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> I agree.<br /> <br /> [QUOTE]But definetively not equal. Socialist/Leftist protest groups are vastly more in number/vocal than the right. Look at the G8 protests for crissakes.[/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> I'd bet that if you'd been canvassing for the NDP in some parts of Alberta, you'd have received similar reactions from 'Conservatives'.<br /> <br /> I doubt whether everyone involved in the protests would agree they were either socialist or leftist. Many might simply wish to preserve some semblance of democracy within their respective nations.<br /> <br /> As aptly demonstrated by many threads on this site, people are prone to make often erroneous assumptions as to someone's beliefs based on the other person's disagreement with their particular belief, e.g., the person disagreeing with a left-winger's perspective is presumed by some to be a 'neo-con moron', or somesuch thing and the person disagreeing with a right-winger's perspective is presumed by some to be a 'social ist airhead' or some similar label..<br /> <br /> Both of the above presumtions are often quite wrong.<br /> <br /> My view is that a nation needs to function in a way that meets the best interest of most citizens. There's no 'right-wing' or 'left-wing' answer that will achieve this goal in all instances...as sometimes a policy that might be identified as 'right-wing' is needed and in other instances a 'left-wing' approach will provide the optimal solution.<br /> <br /> I don't know of any nation that currently operates in this manner. For all the crap some like to yammer on about re: Canada being 'socialist', neither it nor the U.S. is run in a manner that has anything to do with most citizen's interests. <br /> <br /> Identifying ones self as 'right-wing' or 'left-wing' is an easy route to take simply because it relieves you of the responsibility to think and provides you with a pat response for every situation, e.g., 'throw em all in jail' or 'it's society's fault that poor lad is a criminal'. This is nicely demonstrated in many Vive threads where the right-winger/left-winger making a statement clearly has no first-hand experience with the issues on which they're commenting and/or are simply repeating by rote proaganda or cliches hammered into or accepted by them which they've never actually thought much about or researched in any way.<br /> <br /> And looking at some of these 'discussions' formed by cliches and misunderstanding, I'll again point out that rudeness seems to be pretty much spread equally across the politica spectrum.<br /> <br /> [QUOTE]That asshole I saw was waving his fists at this woman. He was totally out of line. Y'know, lefties always go on and on over how much they 'care' and are 'compassionate', when in reality they are backstabbing/two-faced/pieces of human excrement.[/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> Yes, I agree that type of behaviour is quite out od line. However, as demonstrated by the downfall of various 'Christian' evangelists and numerous right-wing politicians and businesspeople through the years, hypocrisy is another quality spread pretty evenly through the political spectrum.<br /> <br /> A hypocrite is usually a hypocrite long before they identify themselves with any particular political belief.<br /> <br />

[Guest]

Not gonna buy it.<br /> <br /> This whole argument of 'assholism is 50/50 on both sides' is totally erroneous.<br /> <br /> The left is simply more vocal/loud. Please name me a series of right-wing protests that can compare to the globalwide leftist protests of the G8 summits?<br /> <br /> The majority of christian/evangelical protests are oftentimes against things like abortion are virtually all the same...christians lighting candles, singing hymns and *quietly* protesting. <br /> <br /> You don't see them burning the American flag or hoisting posters comparing George Bush to Adolf Hitler.<br /> <br /> So again, you're argument is weak in that it's totally baseless. It's like how when Microsoft tried convincing the DOJ that there were other 'equal' competitors out there to their Windows Operating system.<br /> <br /> Bill Gates had the audacity to cite Beos as their 'main competitor' amongst a few other 0.001 percent marketshare OS's<br /> <br /> <br /> <br /> [QUOTE BY= Calumny] [QUOTE]Yelling/screaming at a totally harmless woman just isn't cool. Even if she was wearing a Conservative Party button.[/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> I agree.<br /> <br /> [QUOTE]But definetively not equal. Socialist/Leftist protest groups are vastly more in number/vocal than the right. Look at the G8 protests for crissakes.[/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> I'd bet that if you'd been canvassing for the NDP in some parts of Alberta, you'd have received similar reactions from 'Conservatives'.<br /> <br /> I doubt whether everyone involved in the protests would agree they were either socialist or leftist. Many might simply wish to preserve some semblance of democracy within their respective nations.<br /> <br /> As aptly demonstrated by many threads on this site, people are prone to make often erroneous assumptions as to someone's beliefs based on the other person's disagreement with their particular belief, e.g., the person disagreeing with a left-winger's perspective is presumed by some to be a 'neo-con moron', or somesuch thing and the person disagreeing with a right-winger's perspective is presumed by some to be a 'social ist airhead' or some similar label..<br /> <br /> Both of the above presumtions are often quite wrong.<br /> <br /> My view is that a nation needs to function in a way that meets the best interest of most citizens. There's no 'right-wing' or 'left-wing' answer that will achieve this goal in all instances...as sometimes a policy that might be identified as 'right-wing' is needed and in other instances a 'left-wing' approach will provide the optimal solution.<br /> <br /> I don't know of any nation that currently operates in this manner. For all the crap some like to yammer on about re: Canada being 'socialist', neither it nor the U.S. is run in a manner that has anything to do with most citizen's interests. <br /> <br /> Identifying ones self as 'right-wing' or 'left-wing' is an easy route to take simply because it relieves you of the responsibility to think and provides you with a pat response for every situation, e.g., 'throw em all in jail' or 'it's society's fault that poor lad is a criminal'. This is nicely demonstrated in many Vive threads where the right-winger/left-winger making a statement clearly has no first-hand experience with the issues on which they're commenting and/or are simply repeating by rote proaganda or cliches hammered into or accepted by them which they've never actually thought much about or researched in any way.<br /> <br /> And looking at some of these 'discussions' formed by cliches and misunderstanding, I'll again point out that rudeness seems to be pretty much spread equally across the politica spectrum.<br /> <br /> [QUOTE]That asshole I saw was waving his fists at this woman. He was totally out of line. Y'know, lefties always go on and on over how much they 'care' and are 'compassionate', when in reality they are backstabbing/two-faced/pieces of human excrement.[/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> Yes, I agree that type of behaviour is quite out od line. However, as demonstrated by the downfall of various 'Christian' evangelists and numerous right-wing politicians and businesspeople through the years, hypocrisy is another quality spread pretty evenly through the political spectrum.<br /> <br /> A hypocrite is usually a hypocrite long before they identify themselves with any particular political belief.<br /> <br /> [/QUOTE]

[Dr Caleb]

[QUOTE BY= Rabblewatch]<br /> The left is simply more vocal/loud. <br /> [/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> I think the facts speak for themselves. Who here is more vocal, and just plain rude? The left wing (Susan, Whalen, Milton, Dave Ruston . . .) or the right ('Don Quixote', justme) or the other US anons? Or you for that matter?<br /> <br /> [QUOTE BY= Rabblewatch]<br /> Please name me a series of right-wing protests that can compare to the globalwide leftist protests of the G8 summits?<br /> [/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> Why would people protest things they agree with? The only things I can think of off hand were the Anti-Chavez protests in Venezuela. Perhaps some of the neo-nazi rallies in the US.<br /> <br /> In the US, the anti-Bush/anti-war rallies are always bigger than the pro-Bush, probabally the pro-Bushers simply show up to counter the anti-Bushers and aren't as well organized.<br />