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PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2015 4:35 pm
 


Yogi Yogi:
All 'we' got to do is look at every province the dippers ran/run-right into the ground!

Lest We Forget; Manitoba-Ontario-Saskatchewan-British Columbia- RIP


The thing is, though, that when we do that we get a much more complicated picture than you might realize.

Let's start with Ontario under Bob Rae, the most infamous example. Part of the problem was that Rae was governing during a brutal recession, which was arguably made worse by the interest rates of the bank of Canada and the move of a lot of industry out of Ontario.. Rae began trying to implement spending cuts to get Ontario's finances in order, and as noted on Wikipedia, the unions boycotted Rae's attempts to talk to them. He ended up imposing the "Rae Days" and "Social Contract" salary cuts on his own, and pissed off the unions who, according to the stereotypes, always have the NDP in their pockets.

So Rae got really unlucky and angered some of the NDP's strongest supporters, which fatally weakened his re-election efforts in 1995. The thing is that Rae was actually trying to save the province money without cutting jobs...and if I had to choose between a pink slip and a pay cut, I know which one I'd go for!

A couple of provinces over in Nova Scotia, Darrell Dexter's NDP government lasted one term before being defeated. Oddly enough, during that time Dexter cut education funding and balanced the budget. According to the Halifax Chronicle-Herald, part of the reason for the NDP's defeat was that their own activist base became frustrated and disappointed.

At the other end of the country in British Columbia, Mike Harcourt reigned over a province that was one of the few areas of economic growth in the country during the early 1990s, at least according to the Canadian Encyclopedia.

In Manitoba, Gary Doer's long-running NDP government delivered a series of balanced budgets, opposed the long gun registry, cut provincial income taxes and shifted the provincial tax base more towards consumption taxes, the latter policy long advocated by conservatives advocating tax reform.

Oh, and then Doer ended up getting appointed by Stephen Harper as our ambassador to the United States, where he's been for the last five and a half years.

Here in Alberta, writing in the Sun newspapers, David Akin pointed out that Rachel Notley strongly supports twinning the Kinder Morgan pipeline in B.C., and the Energy East pipeline.

She might not support Northern Gateway, but that's in no small part due to the fact that Harper has pretty much crapped the bed on getting social licence for the pipeline, as Jim Prentice, Doug Eyford,, Kinder Morgan president Ian Anderson, former Canadian Gas Association CEO Michael Cleland and Brent Rathgeber have all criticized Harper's handling of the issue. If you look at their CVs, none of these guys are exactly known for their Marxist tendencies. (I cant provide a reference for Rathgeber, but that's because I heard him say it verbally a few months ago when I was meeting with him).

Obviously, all of these NDP governments did things that could be considered left-wing. But many of them either said or did things that could also be considered right-wing, too, in some cases pissing off their own base in the process.

Like I said, when you actually study the history of provinces governed by the NDP, things are a lot more complicated than they seem at first glance.


Last edited by JaredMilne on Mon May 04, 2015 6:15 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2015 4:58 pm
 


We've had this here before, but I guess people keep wanting to drink the Kool-Aid:

$1:
Mr. Sanger’s conclusions are more than surprising, they’re real eye-openers. His results “show that NDP governments have the best fiscal record of all political parties that have formed federal or provincial government in Canada.” His analysis covered the number of years that the budgets were in balance or deficit and, more significantly, the size of the deficit as a share of gross domestic product.


http://paulmiller.ca/ndp-best-record-of ... d-budgets/


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PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2015 7:25 pm
 


Rachel is going to become the next Premier of Alberta and our affair will become public. :mrgreen:


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PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2015 8:33 pm
 


I'm still undecided. NDP and Wild Rose are the only viable candidates in my riding, and after looking over both their platforms I have the same problem with both. All kinds of great sounding ideas very little in the way of real information on how they'll be implemented and paid for.

Maybe I'll just vote for old Tommy Boy. Tom Lukaszuk from the PCs. He's good for a laugh at least.

Fucking annoying elections with no good options.


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PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2015 8:48 pm
 


Unsound Unsound:
I'm still undecided. NDP and Wild Rose are the only viable candidates in my riding, and after looking over both their platforms I have the same problem with both. All kinds of great sounding ideas very little in the way of real information on how they'll be implemented and paid for.

Maybe I'll just vote for old Tommy Boy. Tom Lukaszuk from the PCs. He's good for a laugh at least.

Fucking annoying elections with no good options.


It doesn't matter who you vote for, because they're all going to feed you the bullshit, because we can't handle the truth. We get real vicious of a pol tries to tell the people the truth, look at the shit Prentice is in because that's what he did. Conservatives want government services with low taxes, just don't give any money to those welfare bums, but keep feeding me the money (look at Thanos who wants a "program for people like him." ) Then wonder why the govt has a deficit. The left thinks deficits are just fine and never met a program they didn't like, so let the good times roll. Nobody wants to pull together all in the same direction, maybe cut back the expectations a bit and build up the country (ie infrastructure, education, health care, things that actually pay back returns at some point.)


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PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2015 6:21 am
 


Unsound Unsound:
I'm still undecided. NDP and Wild Rose are the only viable candidates in my riding, and after looking over both their platforms I have the same problem with both. All kinds of great sounding ideas very little in the way of real information on how they'll be implemented and paid for.

Maybe I'll just vote for old Tommy Boy. Tom Lukaszuk from the PCs. He's good for a laugh at least.

Fucking annoying elections with no good options.


Well, you know who's fault it is! "If Albertans want to know how they got in this situation, all they have to do is look in the mirror."


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PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2015 6:38 am
 


Its interesting that those blaming Albertans for their on-going problems by voting PC, didn't offer the same condemnation of Ontario for re-electing the Liberals. They've done far more harm to Ontario in a far shorter time period than the PC's have done to Alberta.

On top of that hydro rates rose AGAIN May 1. I guess they aren't happy with having the highest hydro rates in North America, gotta put some distance between them and number two.

We're number one! We're number one! :lol:


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PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2015 6:48 am
 


ShepherdsDog ShepherdsDog:
Nice to see that you have faith in people....I think most people are stupid. :?


Most peop;le think most people are stupid. Even stupid people think people aer stupid because (due to the Dunning-Kruger Effect), they are too stupid to know that they're stupid. It's one of the delicios ironies that makes being alive so much fun.

I think the problem is that we assume--we are taught to assume--that people are rational beings. We are capable of rationality, certainly, but we are not fundamentally rational. Most of us are pretty manipulatable at an emotional/intuitive level through exploitation of cognitive biases of which we are barely aware, but that spin doctors/marketers/PR people are wizards in.


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PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2015 6:51 am
 


Zipperfish Zipperfish:
ShepherdsDog ShepherdsDog:
Nice to see that you have faith in people....I think most people are stupid. :?


Most peop;le think most people are stupid. Even stupid people think people aer stupid because (due to the Dunning-Kruger Effect), they are too stupid to know that they're stupid. It's one of the delicios ironies that makes being alive so much fun.

I think the problem is that we assume--we are taught to assume--that people are rational beings. We are capable of rationality, certainly, but we are not fundamentally rational. Most of us are pretty manipulatable at an emotional/intuitive level through exploitation of cognitive biases of which we are barely aware, but that spin doctors/marketers/PR people are wizards in.


People are fundamentally irrational.

And stupid. :lol:

Except me and a few others. We're completely rational and smart. 8)


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PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2015 6:56 am
 


2Cdo 2Cdo:
People are fundamentally irrational.

And stupid. :lol:

Except me and a few others. We're completely rational and smart. 8)


When you measure Marchand with the same ruler you use to measure Burrows, we can talk. :lol: Most people on this forum are better than average, I think, since just by being here we are exposing ourselves to alternate views, which is something that the truly stupid never do.


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PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2015 7:04 am
 


2Cdo 2Cdo:
Its interesting that those blaming Albertans for their on-going problems by voting PC, didn't offer the same condemnation of Ontario for re-electing the Liberals. They've done far more harm to Ontario in a far shorter time period than the PC's have done to Alberta.


Speaking for myself, I tend to steer away from election issues in other places. I can't vote in BC, Ontario, the UK or the US, etc., so I have no cock in that fight . .as it were. ;)

Ontarians can condemn their own government just fine, they don't need my help. Their choices are their own, and I have no moral justification to stick my nose in where I didn't vote.


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PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2015 7:05 am
 


Zipperfish Zipperfish:
2Cdo 2Cdo:
People are fundamentally irrational.

And stupid. :lol:

Except me and a few others. We're completely rational and smart. 8)


When you measure Marchand with the same ruler you use to measure Burrows, we can talk. :lol: Most people on this forum are better than average, I think, since just by being here we are exposing ourselves to alternate views, which is something that the truly stupid never do.


I'd say you have the Burrows-Marchand comparison backwards. I HAVE condemned Marchand when he steps over the line, whereas the Canucks fans, on this site, have always defended Burrows bullshit. Kinda like Habs fans defending their teams dirty actions. :wink:


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PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2015 7:07 am
 


DrCaleb DrCaleb:
2Cdo 2Cdo:
Its interesting that those blaming Albertans for their on-going problems by voting PC, didn't offer the same condemnation of Ontario for re-electing the Liberals. They've done far more harm to Ontario in a far shorter time period than the PC's have done to Alberta.


Speaking for myself, I tend to steer away from election issues in other places. I can't vote in BC, Ontario, the UK or the US, etc., so I have no cock in that fight . .as it were. ;)

Ontarians can condemn their own government just fine, they don't need my help. Their choices are their own, and I have no moral justification to stick my nose in where I didn't vote.


You are one of the few here who act like that. [B-o]


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PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2015 7:28 am
 


[B-o]

The Elections Alberta website is USELESS for finding out where I vote. I'm sure I know, because it's always the same place, but you never know when the PCs will pull a DelMaestro and change the venue just to mess with people.


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PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2015 7:31 am
 


I would love to vote there but I am not a resident yet, just work and pay taxes there. :?


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