[Gunnair]

Unsound Unsound:

ASLplease ASLplease:

When i started to smoke as a teen, i told myself that I could always quit as an adult....i was in my 30s before i successfully quit.

Started smoking at 13. 31 now, and smoke free for a month as of yesterday.

But even 18 years ago i knew smoking was bad for me. That's the problem with these warnings. People who are young and dumb enough to start smoking don't really care about the warnings. They think they're invincible and that they can quit anytime.

Also, can you tell me what those words were? Even though it's only been a month I'm already getting sanctimonious with the wife...

Well done and keep it up.

[herbie]

TAR 12-33 mg could be this or could be triple
Nicotine 1.0 - 2.3 mg could be this or could be more than double
Carbon Monoxide 14 - 29 mg could be this or could be double
Formaldehyde 0.058 - 0.08 close enough for the girls we go with
Hydrogen Cyanide 0.11-0.27 somewhere around there
Benzene 0.042 - 0.08 Horseshoes anyone?

We'll just load 'em up with even more nicotine and so much saltpeter they'll burn even if you toss 'em in the toilet.

[Yogi]

andyt andyt:

Yogi Yogi:

'Some of you' are missing the whole point of my posts.
Virtually everyone has a vice!

Mine is smoking, Yours is drinking, His is eating too much chocolate...etc.
But there is that ever-present attitude that 'Your vice is waaay worse than mine'!

Just remember, 'When you are pointing one finger at me, there are three fingers pointing back'!

Face it Yogi, if you didn't feel guilty about smoking you wouldn't react this strongly to criticism. Do you get all bent out of shape if a PETA person calls you a murderer for eating meat? I don't, I think it's funny.

Guilt. NFL! Just pissed off about the sanctimomious bastards "Your vice is worse than mine"!

[Gunnair]

Yogi Yogi:

bootlegga bootlegga:

Warning labels won't help.

I think each pack of cigarettes should be electrified/wrapped in barbed/razor wire, so that every time someone is stupid enough to buy a pack, they'll get a shot of pain. Then everyone but the masochists would quit!

Excellent idea Boots. I'll get right behind that idea,as long as the same packaging methods are applied to all ALCOHOL BEVERAGES including a glass of wine with dinner!

Whoa who who, there big shooter, let's not get crazy with the cheesewhiz here!

[ShepherdsDog]

A glass or two of wine a day has proven health benefits. There is absolutely no good that comes from cancer sticks

[Wada]

Like I tell my doctor. It helps keep you out of an old folks detention centre.

[Gunnair]

Yogi Yogi:

andyt andyt:

Yogi Yogi:

'Some of you' are missing the whole point of my posts.
Virtually everyone has a vice!

Mine is smoking, Yours is drinking, His is eating too much chocolate...etc.
But there is that ever-present attitude that 'Your vice is waaay worse than mine'!

Just remember, 'When you are pointing one finger at me, there are three fingers pointing back'!

Face it Yogi, if you didn't feel guilty about smoking you wouldn't react this strongly to criticism. Do you get all bent out of shape if a PETA person calls you a murderer for eating meat? I don't, I think it's funny.

Guilt. NFL! Just pissed off about the sanctimomious bastards "Your vice is worse than mine"!

Well, I tell ya what. I quit smoking 12 years ago after smoking for about 13 years. Since then, I have concluded that smoking was the absolute dumbest thing I ever did and quitting the absolute best. That being said, I never pissed in a smoker's ear over their smoking because it took me years and many tries before I successfully quit my addiction. For those not ready, just don't smoke around me because I really hate the smell now. For those ready, tell me what you need for help. For those who've quit, congratulate yourself every day without a cigarette, because that took a hell of an effort!

[Gunnair]

andyt andyt:

Yogi Yogi:

'Some of you' are missing the whole point of my posts.
Virtually everyone has a vice!

Mine is smoking, Yours is drinking, His is eating too much chocolate...etc.
But there is that ever-present attitude that 'Your vice is waaay worse than mine'!

Just remember, 'When you are pointing one finger at me, there are three fingers pointing back'!

Face it Yogi, if you didn't feel guilty about smoking you wouldn't react this strongly to criticism. Do you get all bent out of shape if a PETA person calls you a murderer for eating meat? I don't, I think it's funny.

In the end, what is your point by playing the unctuous twit here? Are you trying to make yourself feel better about something by attacking someone else' vices?

You're going to need a big box of bandaids in that glass house of yours if you don't drop the stone...

[Yogi]

Gunnair Gunnair:

andyt andyt:

Yogi Yogi:

'Some of you' are missing the whole point of my posts.
Virtually everyone has a vice!

Mine is smoking, Yours is drinking, His is eating too much chocolate...etc.
But there is that ever-present attitude that 'Your vice is waaay worse than mine'!

Just remember, 'When you are pointing one finger at me, there are three fingers pointing back'!

Face it Yogi, if you didn't feel guilty about smoking you wouldn't react this strongly to criticism. Do you get all bent out of shape if a PETA person calls you a murderer for eating meat? I don't, I think it's funny.

In the end, what is your point by playing the unctuous twit here? Are you trying to make yourself feel better about something by attacking someone else' vices?

You're going to need a big box of bandaids in that glass house of yours if you don't drop the stone...

[ShepherdsDog]

Gunnair Gunnair:

Well, I tell ya what. I quit smoking 12 years ago after smoking for about 13 years. Since then, I have concluded that smoking was the absolute dumbest thing I ever did and quitting the absolute best. That being said, I never pissed in a smoker's ear over their smoking because it took me years and many tries before I successfully quit my addiction. For those not ready, just don't smoke around me because I really hate the smell now. For those ready, tell me what you need for help. For those who've quit, congratulate yourself every day without a cigarette, because that took a hell of an effort!

Do cigars count??

[Gunnair]

ShepherdsDog ShepherdsDog:

Gunnair Gunnair:

Well, I tell ya what. I quit smoking 12 years ago after smoking for about 13 years. Since then, I have concluded that smoking was the absolute dumbest thing I ever did and quitting the absolute best. That being said, I never pissed in a smoker's ear over their smoking because it took me years and many tries before I successfully quit my addiction. For those not ready, just don't smoke around me because I really hate the smell now. For those ready, tell me what you need for help. For those who've quit, congratulate yourself every day without a cigarette, because that took a hell of an effort!

Do cigars count??

I actually have a cigar on a rare occasion to go with some Talisker.

[ASLplease]

thats must be a first....being self riteous about not being self riteous.

[ASLplease]

ShepherdsDog ShepherdsDog:

Gunnair Gunnair:

Well, I tell ya what. I quit smoking 12 years ago after smoking for about 13 years. Since then, I have concluded that smoking was the absolute dumbest thing I ever did and quitting the absolute best. That being said, I never pissed in a smoker's ear over their smoking because it took me years and many tries before I successfully quit my addiction. For those not ready, just don't smoke around me because I really hate the smell now. For those ready, tell me what you need for help. For those who've quit, congratulate yourself every day without a cigarette, because that took a hell of an effort!

Do cigars count??

too funny

[Khar]

$1:

OK, first of all, everyone ends up with "crippling health problems". I'll go further and categorically state that everyone ends up with fatal health problems. I understand your mis-applied reasoning though--after all the people who put together reports on the cost of smoking, or other social sins, often forget this themsleves. It's an interesting contemporary sociological phenomenon--death itself is considered pathological, a failing of the medical system.

Your point about non-voluntary passive smoke inhalation by non-smokers is well-taken. It's not really an issue anymore with the new restrictions. Occupational exposure has been virtually eliminated and most of the exposure we non-smokers get is walking by occassionally as someone exhales, which falls more in the nuisance category than the health risk category. But there are still a number of people who will get sick because of past exposure. That number will taper off over time.

Not everyone ends up with the crippling kind which ends up with people losing lungs, people fighting cancer, people with long term respiratory distress, and so forth (nor do all smokers). No offense, but taking such a broad comment (which was kind of directed in a different direction) the way you did kind of felt odd -- like blaming life as being the leading cause of death because without life, there would be no death. Crippling implies that they are not killed, it implies that those who smoke increase the rate of people with long-term maladies which cripple them in the long term. This means people who go on oxygen when they are in their fifties, those who need to have a lung remove, and the many who join the hordes of Canadians with cancer every year. While everyone eventually dies, it does not mean that they were a burden for decades before dying, nor that they are going to get diseases when they are young and capable of working, nor that they are going to negatively impact others to increase the amount of people who have these problems befall them for a longer period or well before their time. However, smoking on the other hand manages all of those things.

This has absolutely nothing to do with the other factors you mentioned in your beginning paragraph, nor did I intend it to be -- it sounds to me more like you wanted to bring it up and decided to use my comment as a springboard to go on a bit of a tangent. Smoking incurs greater costs to society in lost productivity, greater costs over the long term to those crippled in some form as a result of a disease, and clogs up Canada's ability to handle health care issues. These are clear costs of longer term maladies brought about by smoking.

The third point to bring up is that you are taking this in a far too narrow view in an attempt to find mis-applied reasoning when it comes to the very narrow viewpoint of deaths due to smoking and the relative costs. Evidence on the dangers of cigarettes are well known. You respond by saying everyone dies. So, those lost years due to smoking are... what, non-existent otherwise? Opportunity cost, my good man! Consider the accomplishments of even just a minimum wage worker, and imagine all the people who die early to smoking. Or children which have had deformation issues due to this problem. Lost productivity. Lost capabilities. Years of working in society, blown out the hatch. Just because you want to take a look at the end of someone's like does not mean that those values equate perfectly -- we have to consider years of lost potential. Whatever consideration you give passive smoking, there is some degree of increased risk which you are imposing on someone else without their free will for your own benefit -- to me, this is not acceptable.

However, this is a long running debate neither of us have the data to substantiate -- but I prefer to look at it from the point of view of lost productivity as well rather than straight out accounting costs.

It is an issue, man. I'm sorry, but I don't want to get smoke blown in my face whenever I go outside, and then have people come here and defend it as "no worse than car exhaust," a "right," or their "vice which hurts/annoys no one but themselves." I know you are just waiting to leap in with a nanny law line here, but look at my post. The mass majority of it was complaining about the many problems I end up having to face daily because of smokers, not health issues (although I still have it on the mind, no matter what stat for second-hand smoke risk factors people use). I don't have an opinion on this article at hand, and haven't touched on legality once.

[Yogi]

Khar Khar:

$1:

OK, first of all, everyone ends up with "crippling health problems". I'll go further and categorically state that everyone ends up with fatal health problems. I understand your mis-applied reasoning though--after all the people who put together reports on the cost of smoking, or other social sins, often forget this themsleves. It's an interesting contemporary sociological phenomenon--death itself is considered pathological, a failing of the medical system.

Your point about non-voluntary passive smoke inhalation by non-smokers is well-taken. It's not really an issue anymore with the new restrictions. Occupational exposure has been virtually eliminated and most of the exposure we non-smokers get is walking by occassionally as someone exhales, which falls more in the nuisance category than the health risk category. But there are still a number of people who will get sick because of past exposure. That number will taper off over time.

Not everyone ends up with the crippling kind which ends up with people losing lungs, people fighting cancer, people with long term respiratory distress, and so forth. No offense, but taking such a broad comment (which was kind of directed in a different direction) the way you did kind of felt odd -- like blaming life as being the leading cause of death because without life, there would be no death. Crippling implies that they are not killed, it implies that those who smoke increase the rate of people with long-term maladies which cripple them in the long term. This means people who go on oxygen when they are in their fifties, those who need to have a lung remove, and the many who join the hordes of Canadians with cancer every year. While everyone eventually dies, it does not mean that they were a burden for decades before dying, nor that they are going to get diseases when they are young and capable of working, nor that they are going to negatively impact others to increase the amount of people who have these problems befall them for a longer period or well before their time. However, smoking on the other hand manages all of those things.

This has absolutely nothing to do with the other factors you mentioned in your beginning paragraph, nor did I intend it to be -- it sounds to me more like you wanted to bring it up and decided to use my comment as a springboard to go on a bit of a tangent. Smoking incurs greater costs to society in lost productivity, greater costs over the long term to those crippled in some form as a result of a disease, and clogs up Canada's ability to handle health care issues. These are clear costs of longer term maladies brought about by smoking.

The third point to bring up is that you are taking this in a far too narrow view in an attempt to find mis-applied reasoning when it comes to the very narrow viewpoint of deaths due to smoking and the relative costs. Evidence on the dangers of cigarettes are well known. You respond by saying everyone dies. So, those lost years due to smoking are... what, non-existent otherwise? Opportunity cost, my good man! Consider the accomplishments of even just a minimum wage worker, and imagine all the people who die early to smoking. Or children which have had deformation issues due to this problem. Lost productivity. Lost capabilities. Years of working in society, blown out the hatch. Just because you want to take a look at the end of someone's like does not mean that those values equate perfectly -- we have to consider years of lost potential. Whatever consideration you give passive smoking, there is some degree of increased risk which you are imposing on someone else without their free will for your own benefit -- to me, this is not acceptable.

It is an issue, man. I'm sorry, but I don't want to get smoke blown in my face whenever I go outside, and then have people come here and defend it as "no worse than car exhaust," a "right," or their "vice which hurts/annoys no one but themselves." I know you are just waiting to leap in with a nanny law line here, but look at my post. The mass majority of it was complaining about the many problems I end up having to face daily because of smokers, not health issues. I don't have an opinion on this article at hand.

I always got a kick out of those who claim "he died early, or sooner than he/she would have if they had not...".

Now just how the hell do you know that "they died early"??? Believe me, I have verrrry closely checked out several live human specimens -albeit of the female persuasion-, and have yet to 'come across' (oops! perhaps the wrong phrase ) I have yet to 'find' an expiration date stamped on any of them!