[raydan]

Even if this gets built...
Oil tanker traffic will increase if the new pipeline is built as planned — from only a few to as many as 220 tankers a year.

Compare this to Newfoundland, I only have the 2006 numbers...
In 2006, more than 1,000 vessels moved about 50 billion litres of crude oil and/or refined gas in and out of Placentia Bay, Newfoundland (that's over 322 million barrels).

[Scape]

It will get built. Clark painted herself into a corner on this by waiting this long and being overly vauge on her terms. She is desperate and she is trying to make this an issue. In the interm, Harper will come in and make the deal go through on Alberta friendly terms if needbe but Clark is terrorfied of Harper so it is unlikly he will need to do that.

[Thanos]

Gunnair Gunnair:

No need. Just don't whine when you get called on the size of that paintbrush you so clumsily wield, sport.

Eat it, you snotty old crab.

[Bodah]

Gunnair Gunnair:

Possibly because of the location but don't let the lack of facts stop you from sniping here.

And what are the main facts again ? The straight is dangerous , because from what I can tell that's all you've been barking about. Tankers are going to crash is all I've been getting for you on this topic. Maybe leave it up to the proffesionals, and the government experts because your certainly not one. If they say it's relatively safe and the risks are minimal. I know not having it at all reduces the risks to zero, I think that's what you're going for with you're NIMBY attitude.

Whatever gramps, if you guys don't want it and the spinn off it will provide for British Colombians in jobs, they'll give it to the Americans.

Current Lines in place, with no problems yet.

1953
Trans Mountain Pipeline (now owned and operated by Kinder Morgan Inc.) was completed to transport crude oil from Edmonton to Vancouver. Interprovincial Pipeline was extended to Sarnia.

1957
Westcoast Pipeline (now owned and operated by Spectra Energy Corp.) began transporting natural gas from northeast B.C. to the B.C. — U.S. border.
Construction of the TransCanada Pipeline to provide a source of natural gas for Central Canada began.
TransCanada’s Alberta System, referred to as NGTL or Nova began operation.

1961
The BC government signed an agreement with Western Pacific Products & Crude Pipelines Ltd. for the construction of a 500 mile crude oil pipeline from Taylor, BC, to Kamloops. The pipeline is now owned and operated by Pembina Pipeline.

[DrCaleb]

Scape Scape:

It will get built. Clark painted herself into a corner on this by waiting this long and being overly vauge on her terms. She is desperate and she is trying to make this an issue. In the interm, Harper will come in and make the deal go through on Alberta friendly terms if needbe but Clark is terrorfied of Harper so it is unlikly he will need to do that.

And that's when Harper will lose any hope of another Majority.

The PM can intervene on these matters, but even in the NL hydro access through Quebec, none have dared to weigh in.

[BeaverFever]

Bodah Bodah:

And what are the main facts again ? The straight is dangerous , because from what I can tell that's all you've been barking about. Tankers are going to crash is all I've been getting for you on this topic. Maybe leave it up to the proffesionals, and the government experts because your certainly not one. If they say it's relatively safe and the risks are minimal. I know not having it at all reduces the risks to zero, I think that's what you're going for with you're NIMBY attitude.

Whatever gramps, if you guys don't want it and the spinn off it will provide for British Colombians in jobs, they'll give it to the Americans.

Current Lines in place, with no problems yet.

1953
Trans Mountain Pipeline (now owned and operated by Kinder Morgan Inc.) was completed to transport crude oil from Edmonton to Vancouver. Interprovincial Pipeline was extended to Sarnia.

1957
Westcoast Pipeline (now owned and operated by Spectra Energy Corp.) began transporting natural gas from northeast B.C. to the B.C. — U.S. border.
Construction of the TransCanada Pipeline to provide a source of natural gas for Central Canada began.
TransCanada’s Alberta System, referred to as NGTL or Nova began operation.

1961
The BC government signed an agreement with Western Pacific Products & Crude Pipelines Ltd. for the construction of a 500 mile crude oil pipeline from Taylor, BC, to Kamloops. The pipeline is now owned and operated by Pembina Pipeline.

"With no problems yet???" All of the lines you mention have had leaks/spills and continue to do so!!!! Here's what I found in 5 minutes of quick googling:

Kinder Morgan’s 1,150-kilometre Trans Mountain pipeline has averaged about one leak a year in the past decade. There have been nine leaks on the pipeline since 2002, which spilled a total of approx. 4,800 barrels of oil. The largest spill took place in 2007, when about 1,400 barrels of oil leaked in Burnaby after an excavator punctured the line. Two other spills of similar size took place in 2005 at the Sumas tank farm and in 2009 at the Burnaby terminal. There were 2 spills in 2011: a nine-barrel spill at its Kamloops terminal, and a 10-barrel spill near Chip Lake, Alta.

A WestCoast (Spectra) gas pipeline rupture occurred between Fort St John and Taylor, BC, on 15 May, 2002. The pipeline break released approximately 3.73 million cuft of sour gas containing 0.41% H2S. The escaping gas resulted in the evacuation of nearby residents, including a caravan park. The NEB’s investigation found that the rupture was probably caused by a shock wave or impact created after a hydrate, or ice plug blockage, was released by a differential pressure in the line. Just last month, Spectra had 2 ruptures in the same week as a line carrying sour gas ruptured north of Fort St. John on June 29. Two workers were injured June 23 in a flash fire and leak at a compressor station operated by Spectra Energy, north of Fort St. John. The Transportation Safety Board is investigating both 2012 incidents.

In 2000, a Pembina Pipeline spill that fouled Chetwynd BC's drinking water. The equivalent of 500 bathtubs of crude oil spilled into the Pine River. In 2011, Pembina Pipeline spilled 1,300 barrels of oil near Slave Lake into an "unamed creek". A 2012 pipeline breach north of Sundre AB spilled up to 3,000 barrels of sour crude oil into a tributary of the Red Deer River, within three kilometres of a similar break in 2008 when a Plains Midstream oil pipeline broke under Jackson Creek, about 3 km away. A report released in 2009 on the Pembina incident revealed the break happened after heavy rainfall eroded soil around the underground pipeline. Good think it doesn't rain on the BC coast much, eh?

And thats just scratching the surface. Pipelines leak about as often as cars get flat tires. That is, all the time.

[Gunnair]

andyt andyt:

Gunnair Gunnair:

Well there's not much to hit in Hecate Straight either untk the shoreline shows up. Both are wide but both are notoriously nasty stretches of water. Prince Rupert only eliminates the need to go down the narrow Douglas Channel. One still has to deal with the waters and the fact that a grounding would likely be on Haida Gwaii or Prince of Wales Islsnd in Alaska.

At Juan de Fuca, the US requires industry to fund tugs that are on standby in case something goes wrong with a tanker there. They've been called out something like 11 times in a number of years - ie infrequently. We could require the same at Dixon Entrance. (Although I don't know how well those tugs would do with the weather they get up there.) But it seems like a short distance to have to traverse and then it's free and clear sailing. I'm willing to take reasonable risk up there, as I would be if the pipeline gets built to Vancouver. Gotta move that oil somehow.

I was on the Huron during a call out for the Exxon Philidelphia in 88 when she lost her engine not far from the JDF entrance

[Gunnair]

Strutz Strutz:

andyt andyt:

We're having it. And Gunnair is representative of a lot of BCrs views, IMO. I'm a little more willing to take the risk, but only if top notch risk management is in place. (And I don't trust the Liberals or CPC here). I think the living in a cave argument applies if you're not willing to take any risk, but the risk has to be reasonable and in proportion to reward. As it stands, BC takes the risk, Alberta gets the reward. Not gonna happen.

No amount of "reward" could even come close in proportion to the permanent damage that would be done if an accident was ever to take place. All the money in the world would never make the damage "go away".

Considering the challenges, as Gunnair has pointed out, using either possible shipping routes, it will be extremely high risk and a disaster waiting to happen. I dearly hope I'm wrong on this.

You're not.

[Gunnair]

Thanos Thanos:

Gunnair Gunnair:

No need. Just don't whine when you get called on the size of that paintbrush you so clumsily wield, sport.

Eat it, you snotty old crab.

Thanks, Ezra.

[Gunnair]

Bodah Bodah:

Gunnair Gunnair:

Possibly because of the location but don't let the lack of facts stop you from sniping here.

And what are the main facts again ? The straight is dangerous , because from what I can tell that's all you've been barking about. Tankers are going to crash is all I've been getting for you on this topic. Maybe leave it up to the proffesionals, and the government experts because your certainly not one. If they say it's relatively safe and the risks are minimal. I know not having it at all reduces the risks to zero, I think that's what you're going for with you're NIMBY attitude.

Whatever gramps, if you guys don't want it and the spinn off it will provide for British Colombians in jobs, they'll give it to the Americans.

Nor do you have clue one either and I'd be willing to bet you've never been there. So gas away and wax idiotic on the topic.

As for spinoffs, well yes, if the public does not want them, then they don't want them. Who are you to demand people accept a pipeline?

[Gunnair]

Scape Scape:

It will get built. Clark painted herself into a corner on this by waiting this long and being overly vauge on her terms. She is desperate and she is trying to make this an issue. In the interm, Harper will come in and make the deal go through on Alberta friendly terms if needbe but Clark is terrorfied of Harper so it is unlikly he will need to do that.

I'm not so sure of that. Irrespective if what Harper might think of trying, I'd bet Enbridge will tire of the shenanigans and pull the plug.

[peck420]

Wait a sec...let me check something.

Yup, BC'ers are full of it.

All so concerned about not spilling oil, yet not a single law on engine maintenance (marine or land)...

So before any of you start spouting off about how environmentally ill reasoned this is, try to keep in mind that the vast majority of oil released into the environment comes from Joe Average...and nobody seems to care.

Now, call this what it is, a shameless money grab...a shameless money grab that should be directed to Enbridge, not Alberta.

Edit to add:

To give you an idea of how much oil joe average is dumping...this is for normal operation of a properly maintained vehicle...

Average oil leaked: 1L/year (full size sedan...commercial trucks are far higher)
# of Vehicles:2.7 million (as of 2008...higher now)

Oil leaked: 22,998 Barrels...give or take.

Per year.

This does not include commercial vehicles, pleasure vehicles (quads, snowmobiles), or water craft.

[Xort]

If the shipping is the worry, how many problems have the ore ships going into Kitimat's smelter had?

[Gunnair]

peck420 peck420:

Wait a sec...let me check something.

Yup, BC'ers are full of it.

.

Interesting. Normally when you enter a dialogue, it's generally well reasoned and non confrontational. This time however, you've chosen to start off as prick.

. Or are you just a closet asshole finally coming to terms with it?

[Gunnair]

Xort Xort:

If the shipping is the worry, how many problems have the ore ships going into Kitimat's smelter had?

None so far. Cougar attacks in downtown Victoria haven't occurred either even though the big cats show up on occasion. We should bring more in right?