[EyeBrock]

ShepherdsDog ShepherdsDog:

The Mohawks unlike most other native peoples don't have a traditional/ancestral to this land. Eyebrock has pointed out countless times that the Mohawks were colonists/settlers, just like the UEL that they accompanied into Upper Canada. They were given land grants, just like the other settlers. Some sold their claims and some were ripped off, just like some whites.

If they have issues with traditional/ancestral lands, perhaps they should discuss this with the American government. Let's see how far they get.

Donny won't have that about the Mohawks because it doesn't jive with his way of thinking.

Sometimes the truth gets in the way.

[Mustang1]

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

Sometimes the truth gets in the way.

And knowledge

[EyeBrock]

Mustang1 Mustang1:

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

Sometimes the truth gets in the way.

And knowledge

Well, I have tried to help him out there, but there has to be a thirst for a different point of view before one is accepted.

Unfortunately I have not detected a need to see this in Donny.

[Lemmy]

What seems to be missing from ALL the native debates I've read on CKA is the obvious FACT that what we're currently doing isn't working. Whether you support Native rights or not scarcely matters. Both sides are unhappy. This isn't going to change until the whole "native question" in Canada is completely redressed.

About 5 years ago, the phone company called me up and told me that my rotary telephone would no longer work as of such-and-such a date; upgrades to the system and all. I was going to get upset, put on a Grandpa Simpson attitude, but decided to just go out and buy a touchtone phone. I liked my rotary phone, but, at some point, you've got to move on with the times. As it turns out, I like my touchtone phone too. Sorry Native-Canadians, but you're rotary telephones. This is the 21st century and there's no place for rotary phones anymore.

[Gunnair]

Lemmy Lemmy:

Sorry Native-Canadians, but you're rotary telephones. This is the 21st century and there's no place for rotary phones anymore.

Ummm.... I'm not sure that came out right...

[Donny_Brasco]

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

Mustang1 Mustang1:

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

Sometimes the truth gets in the way.

And knowledge

Well, I have tried to help him out there, but there has to be a thirst for a different point of view before one is accepted.

Unfortunately I have not detected a need to see this in Donny.

I heard you talk about the Mohawks and Iroquois as settlers just like the Europeans.

Then I asked why they have treaty cards and are covered under the constitution the same way as the rest of us native folks.

That being true your argument that they are merely settlers holds no water. The land set aside for them is governed by the same rules that my reserve is. And there are specific rules and legal formalities that need to be followed to take that land away.

That is a fact and despite your educated opinion which I agree seems to have merit at first glance, the Six Nations are Canadian Aboriginal people with their rights protected under the constitution the same as mine ore.

Your argument/opinion that they are simply settlers has no more legal footing then my claim to be the Queen of England. Just because I say I am – don’t make it so.

[EyeBrock]

It's not an argument. It's documented history.

[llama66]

perhaps its time to look at the Act and groups that wish to go militant should face serious consequences (ie, being stripped of Treaty Status, having your reserve taken away, forcing the natives to be accountable for their actions). Why should we as a nation give you really perks that almost all of us would kill for, all some of you do is bitch about how its not enough, and how the white man is to blame for all the problems faced by the first nations peoples, I think its time for the natives to learn about personal accountability.

[Donny_Brasco]

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

It's not an argument. It's documented history.

Well then the problem is that you claim that they have no rights beyond what any other settler would have because of documented history.

However this is not so because they are treated differently, they have status and are recognized under the constitution the same as the rest of the First Nations.

Therefore the grant of land that the government gave them for being allies to the British during the American revolution must be more encompassing than any regular settler's.

You have a point, I get it. But your interpretation of "documented history' does not take into account the realities of today.

Argue that they are settlers all you want. It does not change their legal status one bit.

[Donny_Brasco]

llama66 llama66:

Why should we as a nation give you really perks that almost all of us would kill for, all some of you do is bitch about how its not enough, and how the white man is to blame for all the problems faced by the first nations peoples, I think its time for the natives to learn about personal accountability.

Odd that you would complain that the deal you made with us to share the land we now call Canada is too good for the natives....

That is fine, you are free to object and if you don’t like it leave to whatever country you think you can make a better life without the burden of the obligations you have as a Non-aboriginal signatory to our treaties.

[Mustang1]

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

It's not an argument. It's documented history.

At what point does our native apologist simply admit that he's out of his league on this particular issue and instead of pushing his agenda, just simply concede his woeful lack of knowledge?

It was land that was given to Native by the British and then subsequently sold off by Brant. I wonder why the agenda-pushers refuse to acknowledge this?

[Donny_Brasco]

Mustang1 Mustang1:

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

It's not an argument. It's documented history.

At what point does our native apologist simply admit that he's out of his league on this particular issue and instead of pushing his agenda, just simply concede his woeful lack of knowledge?

It was land that was given to Native by the British and then subsequently sold off by Brant. I wonder why the agenda-pushers refuse to acknowledge this?

Ya, you guys have a great reputation of being honest and dealing with the native population with integrity.

But maybe this is the 1 out of 10,000 times that things were done on the up-and-up.

Stranger things have happened.

[EyeBrock]

Donny_Brasco Donny_Brasco:

Mustang1 Mustang1:

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

It's not an argument. It's documented history.

At what point does our native apologist simply admit that he's out of his league on this particular issue and instead of pushing his agenda, just simply concede his woeful lack of knowledge?

It was land that was given to Native by the British and then subsequently sold off by Brant. I wonder why the agenda-pushers refuse to acknowledge this?

Ya, you guys have a great reputation of being honest and dealing with the native population with integrity.

But maybe this is the 1 out of 10,000 times that things were done on the up-and-up.

Stranger things have happened.

It's no different to the bad land deals made by UEL's.

The difference these days is uneducated people shout louder than the historical facts, and get a willing venue in our self-destructive media.

Try reading the history Donny, but then why would you? It would prove you wrong.

[PENATRATOR]

Yes Don and the classy first nations "warriors" (that term makes me laugh) show such class while beating on the elderly, while masked.
Very noble citizens indeed.

I complain WHolly %$#@ talk aboout the pot calling the kettle black

Why did you avoid my legitimate question about the financial settlement you had mentioned earlier rather than pushing your usual bullshit?

[Donny_Brasco]

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

It's no different to the bad land deals made by UEL's.

The difference these days is uneducated people shout louder than the historical facts, and get a willing venue in our self-destructive media.

Try reading the history Donny, but then why would you? It would prove you wrong.

Apparently someone really screwed up then. lol

I'm not arguing your historical facts. I'm arguing your facts don;t back up what the reality is today. No any how may times you yap about the way things should be because of these "facts" - in reality they make no sense.

Maybe you should be out revoking status cards on Mohawk territory...reminds me of that commercial for Kia.

Apparently reality is not your "forte".