[Arrowhead]

saturn_656 saturn_656:

Arrowhead Arrowhead:

And our brave young soldiers certainly did us proud this week by shooting first and asking questions later. The answers to those questions? Two dead children and their wounded mother and father.
http://canadianpress.google.com/article ... der5QD6sqg

I'm feeling safer already...

Unfortunately our troops were not given the opportunity to ask questions, they had mere seconds to make a life or death decision. Hindsight is always 20/20.

This a case for the dazzlers that certain posters here were so pissed off about. They could have prevented this unfortunate incident.

I think the war in Afghanistan was bullshit from the start. Canada nor the western world doesn't benefit as a whole, nobody has any intention of finishing the real job and that was squashing Al Qaeda and getting Bin Laden. The so-called terrorist just operate out of the border region of Pakistan now. Conviently, we can't even go there to fight them. So what the hell? What's the goal? Bring peace and prosperity to a landlocked nation knee-deep in bloodshed? Hah, how idealistic, how righteous, what bullshit.

People's lives are being wasted just so we can sit at home and feel good about ourselves, and so we can try and point at eachother and say "look, we're the good guys!". Maybe there's some deeper imperialistic reasons the men in charge are asking us to wage this war, but for the rest of us, it's nothing more than another attempt at self-righteous bullshit with no end in sight. I'm completely sick of it.

[saturn_656]

Arrowhead Arrowhead:

I think the war in Afghanistan was bullshit from the start. Canada nor the western world doesn't benefit as a whole, nobody has any intention of finishing the real job and that was squashing Al Qaeda and get Bin Laden. They just operate out of the border region of Pakistan now. Conviently, we can't go there. So what the hell? What's the goal? Bring peace and prosperity to a landlocked nation knee-deep in bloodshed? Hah, how idealistic, how righteous, what bullshit.

Peoples lives are being wasted just so we can sit at home and feel good about ourselves. We can try and point and eachother and say "look, we're the good guys!". Maybe there's some deeper imperialistic reasons the men in charge are asking us to wage this war, but for the rest of us, it's nothing more than another attempt at self-righteous bullshit with no end in sight. I'm completely sick of it.

We didn't much benefit from inteviening in Haiti, so I guess that was a waste of time and effort as well.

All our work in former Yugoslavia? Well what did Canada get out of its effort there? Not too much, guess it was a waste too.

What benefit did we get from aiding South Korea during its war with the North? In your eyes was that a waste as well?

Good thing Canada didn't waste too much in Rwanda right? Imagine if we had sent a real combat force there, there would have been no benefit for us to save all those Rwandans.

Are you advocating an isolationist Canada?

[Scape]

Dear ArrowHead,

War, what is it good for? I think that as north Americans we are not really in the fight and have never really understood the true reasons for war. Sure, we have ponied up when the times called for it but safe and secure in our own land we feel no pressing need to engage in such abstract struggles, especially when such struggles seem pointless and unattainable. So we are beset with a struggle, order vs a chaos that has been long since in the making. This is no crusade or jihad but an act of defiance vs those who wish to do harm for the sake of it.

The best qualities of mankind are on prominent display when we are in the midst of struggle. A mountain climber may enjoy the brief moment in reaching the zenith of the peak but it's the trip up there or the struggle that they truly savor as it defines their character and makes them strong. You say that we 'feel good' at for doing this and in some way I suppose that is true but the reality is if not us then who? The coalition that went into Afghanistan is the original coalition of the willing that represented the good will the US reaped when it was struck. This was no idle support for some fledgling country but a vanguard against the the very idea of violence. Action begets reaction and this was a draw string that has been decades in the pulling that was released on 9/11. Why then does our arrival there under UN mandate surprise anyone at this point?

Perhaps the person you need to talk to and tell them what the hell war is good for is the scumbag that fired a RPG to the head of Captain Nichola Goddard. She was there helping the people of Afghanistan, not to repress or occupy them. They are the ones who make it so the violence seems without end.

[Arrowhead]

saturn_656 saturn_656:

Arrowhead Arrowhead:

I think the war in Afghanistan was bullshit from the start. Canada nor the western world doesn't benefit as a whole, nobody has any intention of finishing the real job and that was squashing Al Qaeda and get Bin Laden. They just operate out of the border region of Pakistan now. Conviently, we can't go there. So what the hell? What's the goal? Bring peace and prosperity to a landlocked nation knee-deep in bloodshed? Hah, how idealistic, how righteous, what bullshit.

Peoples lives are being wasted just so we can sit at home and feel good about ourselves. We can try and point and eachother and say "look, we're the good guys!". Maybe there's some deeper imperialistic reasons the men in charge are asking us to wage this war, but for the rest of us, it's nothing more than another attempt at self-righteous bullshit with no end in sight. I'm completely sick of it.

We didn't much benefit from inteviening in Haiti, so I guess that was a waste of time and effort as well.

All our work in former Yugoslavia? Well what did Canada get out of its effort there? Not too much, guess it was a waste too.

What benefit did we get from aiding South Korea during its war with the North? In your eyes was that a waste as well?

Good thing Canada didn't waste too much in Rwanda right? Imagine if we had sent a real combat force there, there would have been no benefit for us to save all those Rwandans.

Are you advocating an isolationist Canada?

Yes, our history is indeed loaded with righteous deeds. Atleast in the past we seemed to have clear goals and clear results. But with Afghanistan, I'm not convinced. We're what, 7 years into this? Our real enemies, Al Queda don't even need Afghanistan. They move in and out of Pakistan and are ready to undo any real progress we have made over the years. NATO doesn't have enough forces to satisfactorily control the country, and the US basically abandoned the fight in Afghanistan to launch another war in Iraq based on lies. Do you still trust these people?

They're not really interested in winning this, maybe they know that they just can't! My friend, the only reason why there still is a war in Afghanistan is so that there can be a war in Afghanistan. That's the only way they can keep forces in the region right next door to our buddies Iran. Also, the war in Afghanistan has nothing to do with our nation, this was supposed to be America's conflict. As a member of NATO we can agree to be obliged to help out with logistic and peace keeping. But somehow, we've ended up with a starring role in fighting for imperialistic ideals. We're being taken for a ride and there's nothing we can do to stop it. This is about global domination. How much more blood needs to be shed just to attempt to fullfil someone's ideals of a perfect world?

[Arrowhead]

Scape Scape:

Perhaps the person you need to talk to and tell them what the hell war is good for is the scumbag that fired a RPG to the head of Captain Nichola Goddard. She was there helping the people of Afghanistan, not to repress or occupy them. They are the ones who make it so the violence seems without end.

Whatever your intentions or whoevers intentions are for being in Afghanistan, we stormed in as a force and we're occupying them.

I'm so sick of wanting to feel like the good guys in the world. Let's build our own nation, it's still not perfect you know, we can also help people without storming into foreign lands uninvited and armed to the teeth. If the Afghanis want to defeat the evil Taliban, let them wake up and fight them themselves. I'm not scared of another 20 guys with box cutters anymore, we don't need to continue with this self-righteous shit thinking all out war and 'liberation' is how to beat them.

[Scape]

Well I am perfectly fine with the idea that Afganis need to run their own country but this idea that we are there for x years and so we did our bit time to pack it in is utter bs. We have been in Cyprus since 1964! We only recently got out of Yugo but even there we keep a presence. We don't need many there now but we did at one point, had we left it early it would have flared right back up again. In fact had we been in places like Yugo or Rwanda sooner with more then we could have saved a lot more. As it stands we are there like it or not and the job is far from over. The Afghanistan authority is no were near self reliant and will require aid and much more than Haiti did because they are actively engaged with a hot enemy. If we leave now not only will we have left a job half done we will need to go back, so what would be the point in that?

[Bacardi4206]

Arrowhead Arrowhead:

And our brave young soldiers certainly did us proud this week by shooting first and asking questions later. The answers to those questions? Two dead children and their wounded mother and father.
http://canadianpress.google.com/article ... der5QD6sqg

I suppose people are going to tell me to toughen up, get real, shrug this off, maybe the victims deserved this, without a secure afghanistan Canada might fall to the Taliban and/or evil Muslims. Yeah right, I'm feeling safer already...

The civilian population had been warned, and knows not to speed at a NATO checkpoint or convoy. NATO treats all speeding cars as a suicide bomber threat, as they used the tactic before and still try to do it. If they do not stop, a warning shot is fired right away. If they still do not stop after a couple of seconds after the warning shot. They will be fired upon.

Unless of course in your mind the Canadian troops in the article should have waited for the car to get right to them and see or not if the speeding vehicle was a suicide bomber or not?

"Are we dead?", "No, I don't think so", "Good it was just a civilian". Great tactic Arrowhead.

[herbie]

Bacardi4206 Bacardi4206:

I hate all this military bitching about the war, we entered Afghanistan. We had a obligation to our allies, and NATO. No matter what you think of the war, or what is going on such as civilian deaths due to taliban suicide bombers. Nothing will result from the other trueth that we are there to accomplish something good, the rebuilding of Afghanistan and its Security. Not only that but the rebuilding of hospitals so the people there can get treatment, and building of schools for education for kids so they can have a future. With stabalization comes jobs and oppertunity for Afghanistan.

Now with that, we also got to battle the Taliban that threats the very existance of that. Although they are not fighting us because we are here to help Afghanistan, they got there reasons for fighting us but how are we suppose to accomplish these goals plus fighting the taliban with such a small force, expecially ill-equiped force. No matter how well trained they are.

The more troops we have there, the faster we can get this done and the more area and support we can have for our troops.

The only reason to think putting in more troops is crazy is due to casualties during the war. They are painful, and sad however they signed up for a cause they believe in and are ready to die for that cause. It's part of there job as a soldier. They WANT to be there, and they believe in there mission.

Who are we to decide for them what they want, or anything about the war when we aren't the ones on the front lines viewing it for ourselves. If the soldiers want to be there, then let them finish there mission and goals instead of retreating with our arms in the air from a war that we got ourselves involved in all because we got some troop casualties that are apart of warfare.

That's like getting married to somebody, and halfway through your marriage you say "I had a great time, but my wedding ring has some rust on it. I thought about replacing it, but its too much work. I think I just want a divorce instead".

You rant contains so many similarities and cliches it could have been cut & pasted from the rant of a misguided Republican who thinks Vietnam was winnable'.

If we pull them out it means they got pulled out. Nothing else.

[ridenrain]

Herbie: Build many strawmen in you're day?

Arrowhead: I find it funny that someone with the Lib sticker would say "I'm so sick of wanting to feel like the good guys in the world."
Usually, it's always harkening back to some ideal world of lester Pearson and the glories of the UN. When Canadian troops did nothing but peacekeeping and the world was so civilised they just didn't go around us and Rwanda everyones head off anyways.

It's a different view that I can agree with more.. but just not for Afghanistan.

[saturn_656]

herbie herbie:

You rant contains so many similarities and cliches it could have been cut & pasted from the rant of a misguided Republican who thinks Vietnam was winnable'.

If we pull them out it means they got pulled out. Nothing else.

In 'Nam the US quite literally snatched defeat from the jaws of victory. The VC were all but exhausted by the time of the US pullout and the North was never at any point in the war a match for the US Armed Forces.

The American failure in Vietnam was because of politics, pure and simple.

[bootlegga]

cheryl08 cheryl08:

I never said i did not support Canadian troops in Afganistan; there already there mine as well make the best of it. But I don't see how this will benefit the Canadian economy with corporate tax cuts and a deficit.

As for the "green shift", it may not the out of the best interests of the Canadian public but it will produce some form of revenue to balance the money lost from corporate tax cuts which seems like something more economically sound in terms of managing finances. I'm not a big fan of the "green shift" but i can say that it's the liberals way of looking for other sources of taxation.

Do you even have a clue what you are talking about? What in the hell does Afghanistan have anything to do with taxes? Did you bitch when we sent aid to Sri Lanka? Or New Orleans? Or anywhere else?

How did peacekeeping ever help our economy? It didn't, it was merely the right thing to do, just like Afghanistan.

We are in Afghanistan to help another nation rebuild after decades of war. We are not there to protect a pipeline or build a mine or factory or open a trade agreement. We are offering them the same assistance we offered to Bosnia, Croatia, Cyprus, Haiti, East Timor, and dozens of other countries. In time, Afghanistan hopefully will be a nation that can stand on its own two feet and it won't need our help. Then we can go home (or go help someone else).

Why? Because that's what Canadians do. We help those who need help.

[Streaker]

Hyack Hyack:

$1:

Military officials say the car was behaving in a "threatening manner" by racing toward the convoy near Kandahar City as soldiers repeatedly tried to warn the driver away, using hand signals, flashing lights and a siren.

As a last resort, they opened fire.

To reduce the risk of an accidental shooting, the NATO-led coalition runs regular ads in local news media warning civilians to stay well clear of military convoys. Armoured vehicles also carry large red signs telling cars to stay away. The vast majority of Afghan drivers pull over to the side of the road whenever they see a military vehicle approach, much as Canadian drivers do for an ambulance or fire truck.

What would you have them do? The civilian population has been warned time and time again the actions displayed could cause them to be fired upon. How were they to know it wasn't a suicidal attack?

Enough with these lame, desperate excuses, and screw the ROE, or whatever the protocols are called for such a situation.

Canadian soldiers have no right to be shooting at Afghan civilians if they aren't being fired upon.

What the hell is the matter with people?!? "pfft.... Too bad so sad - a couple of kids were killed.... hindsight is always 20/20." WTF?!?

Killing kids is wrong. Period.

We have no goddamned business in Afghanistan. This mission increasingly dishonours our country.

[Scape]

When 10 year olds are being used as suicide bombers then, yeah, they have every reason to see anyone approaching at high speed as a threat and must act accordingly.

[Zipperfish]

Yeah, I'm with streaker on this one. Killing and/or torturing children seems to be quite in vogue these days. Call me old school, but I'm still against it.

[Streaker]

Scape Scape:

When 10 year olds are being used as suicide bombers then, yeah, they have every reason to see anyone approaching at high speed as a threat and must act accordingly.

Acting accordingly would be laying down a smokescreen or maybe one of those spiky things to puncture tires, not letting loose a hail of bullets on them.