[Prof_Chomsky]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

Prof_Chomsky Prof_Chomsky:

I love how this insignificant military story turns heads (And let’s be honest here, it is very insignificant. A cold war era aircraft carrier with no aircraft), but the one that really matters is as usual disregarded.
It’s not that China is trying to build a world class navy, it’s that the west has put them in a position where they have the money and booming economy to do so. All because some billionaires wanted a couple extra billion to add to the pile and lobbied the government until it was legal to outsource EVERYTHING and remove all the usual tariffs and trade barriers while ignoring China’s manipulation of their markets, currency and every other dirty economic trick in the book.

You don’t worry about China’s military. You worry about their economy. Or better yet, you should be worried about the western economies that are slowly eroding.

I disagree. Those not worrying about the Chinese military need to give their head a very big shake.

You can't build a world class military without money, LOTS of money. You can't fight China with a military build up, you bankrupt them the same way we did the Russians. Stop worrying about he effect, and start worrying about the cause.

Concur. This is about developing a capability for China's future and I suspect that the designation of the ship as a training vessel is probably it's permanent designation and the chatter about it going into deployment is just intended to cause some sleepless nights in Tokyo, Manila, Taipei, and Hanoi

[bootlegga]

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

Prof_Chomsky Prof_Chomsky:

I love how this insignificant military story turns heads (And let’s be honest here, it is very insignificant. A cold war era aircraft carrier with no aircraft), but the one that really matters is as usual disregarded.
It’s not that China is trying to build a world class navy, it’s that the west has put them in a position where they have the money and booming economy to do so. All because some billionaires wanted a couple extra billion to add to the pile and lobbied the government until it was legal to outsource EVERYTHING and remove all the usual tariffs and trade barriers while ignoring China’s manipulation of their markets, currency and every other dirty economic trick in the book.

You don’t worry about China’s military. You worry about their economy. Or better yet, you should be worried about the western economies that are slowly eroding.

I disagree. Those not worrying about the Chinese military need to give their head a very big shake.

I have to agree with Chomsky.

If the Chinese economy sputters, they won't be able to afford carriers, so if you really want to 'target' them, you need to deal with the trade imbalances Western countries have with China, not worry about a carrier or three they'll build over the next two decades.

The USN is the largest best-equipped force on the planet because of the US economy, nothing else. The economy is the key factor in building a world class navy - just look at history, the Spanish, the Dutch, the British, the Americans, everyone of them had a powerful economy which afforded the creation of those navies.

Even if they do build the three carriers they proclaimed, does anyone here really think that all three will match even one Nimitz (nevermind the new Ford class coming online in the next few years) or one QE II carrier and its supporting ships?

I certainly don't.

The only place Chinese carriers will be safe will be within 1000km of China - outside of China's land-based missile and air coverage, those flattops are nothing more than a coral reef waiting to form. Even then, US/UK nuke subs should have little problem dealing with them if they leave their ports.

[Zipperfish]

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

$1:

And he said the defence of the Falklands now relied on "deterrence" rather than putting together a task force to rescue the islands from any invasion.

That's a polite way of the Brits reminding the Argies that, "We have nukes."

Nah, the deterrence is the RAF QRA flight, the resident Pongo battalion and the on station RN sub/frigate. The buckets of instant sunshine are for our friends in Russia, Iran and China.

"Buckets of instant sunshine"--that is awesome!

[Zipperfish]

I think they are going to call it the "Walmart" after the people who paid for it.

[Zipperfish]

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

I disagree. Those not worrying about the Chinese military need to give their head a very big shake.

Yup. When China kicks it up another couple of notches, we'll be reminiscining about the good ol' days when all we had to worry about was wingnut Islamists getting lucky on a terrorist strike.

[EyeBrock]

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

I disagree. Those not worrying about the Chinese military need to give their head a very big shake.

Yup. When China kicks it up another couple of notches, we'll be reminiscining about the good ol' days when all we had to worry about was wingnut Islamists getting lucky on a terrorist strike.

The buckets of instant sunshine is well Brit!

Already the Far East is further de-stablised as the PRC military expands. The Aussies are well aware of the threat and the US has already made plans for a major base in northen Aussie-land.

I'd love it if China's new and growing prosperity ushered in a more stable and peaceful future but the warning signs are pretty plain for everybody to see.

[BartSimpson]

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

I'd love it if China's new and growing prosperity ushered in a more stable and peaceful future but the warning signs are pretty plain for everybody to see.

It's that 'Middle Kingdom' crap coming up is what's the problem. Now that the Chinese are relatively wealthy again their first thought goes to making the rest of the world kiss their butts because they think that's the rightful order of things.

[Zipperfish]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

It's that 'Middle Kingdom' crap coming up is what's the problem. Now that the Chinese are relatively wealthy again their first thought goes to making the rest of the world kiss their butts because they think that's the rightful order of things.

Which is the exact same attitude the US has. Which means that the world will not be big enough for both of them.

Banal morality aside, an existing superpower and and emerging superpower will engage in a power struggle.

[bootlegga]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

I'd love it if China's new and growing prosperity ushered in a more stable and peaceful future but the warning signs are pretty plain for everybody to see.

It's that 'Middle Kingdom' crap coming up is what's the problem. Now that the Chinese are relatively wealthy again their first thought goes to making the rest of the world kiss their butts because they think that's the rightful order of things.

I might be inclined to agree if the Chinese were the only ones who got wealthy and thought about "making the rest of the world kiss their butts because they think that's the rightful order of things."

That's been mankind's bane since the dawn of time, from the the Stone ages right up until now. Sadly, the way this usually dissipates is through conflict with a winner(s) and a loser(s).

If the US wants to be on the winning side, they better get their financial house in order or it they'll go bankrupt just like the Soviets did a generation ago.

Here's hoping we're not on the losing end of this struggle.

[BartSimpson]

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

It's that 'Middle Kingdom' crap coming up is what's the problem. Now that the Chinese are relatively wealthy again their first thought goes to making the rest of the world kiss their butts because they think that's the rightful order of things.

Which is the exact same attitude the US has. Which means that the world will not be big enough for both of them.

Banal morality aside, an existing superpower and and emerging superpower will engage in a power struggle.

You're seriously comparing the US to China? Is this because of the US troops currently occupying Alberta? Is it because we annexed BC? Maybe it's because of how we execute those who criticize our government?

[Zipperfish]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

You're seriously comparing the US to China? Is this because of the US troops currently occupying Alberta? Is it because we annexed BC? Maybe it's because of how we execute those who criticize our government?

No it is because the US is a superpower and China is an emerging superpower. That is the basis of comparison.

The US attempt to annexd Canada failed.

[bootlegga]

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

You're seriously comparing the US to China? Is this because of the US troops currently occupying Alberta? Is it because we annexed BC? Maybe it's because of how we execute those who criticize our government?

No it is because the US is a superpower and China is an emerging superpower. That is the basis of comparison.

The US attempt to annexd Canada failed.

SNAP!

[CDN_PATRIOT]

$1:

An obsolete Soviet aircraft carrier that was decomissioned and sold to Ukraine then decommissioned again and sold to China at three times it's value enters service after yet another refit

Title fixed for accuracy




-J.

[BartSimpson]

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

You're seriously comparing the US to China? Is this because of the US troops currently occupying Alberta? Is it because we annexed BC? Maybe it's because of how we execute those who criticize our government?

No it is because the US is a superpower and China is an emerging superpower. That is the basis of comparison.

Still not the same thing.

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

The US attempt to annexd Canada failed.

We've never tried to annex Canada. The War of 1812 started when you people tried to force us to take Quebec and after a valiant battle we made you keep it and then we successfully rebuffed all of your other clever tricks to try to get us to take Quebec off your hands.

Try as you might you jerks conquered Quebec in 1765 and you people will just have to live with the consequences of Canadian imperialism.

[Zipperfish]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

We've never tried to annex Canada. The War of 1812 started when you people tried to force us to take Quebec and after a valiant battle we made you keep it and then we successfully rebuffed all of your other clever tricks to try to get us to take Quebec off your hands.

Try as you might you jerks conquered Quebec in 1765 and you people will just have to live with the consequences of Canadian imperialism.